Trayvon Martin George Zimmerman Discussion Thread...
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evoljeanyes wrote: »@heyslick can you or can you not logically conclude from the 911 call that Zimmerman pursued Martin and created the confrontation.
Don't act like you didn't know about that communities string of home robberies & Zimmerman wasn't just some random dude out to ? poor little innocent black children - ? ! face the real facts and stop playing games about it. This young man didn't deserve to die, but this young man was far from an innocent little child - BTW I thought people were innocent until proven guilty & most within this site have already convicted this man -
Y do some black people have to get so emotional about issues like this and when more facts come forward - they look foolish. can you say Duke University? some within that community were making threats - e.g., hang them white boys - just image if they had happened - YELP some black folks just can't resist being idiots & claiming things like white men been ? your women for 600 years on and on --- WELL ? and it was proven and the lying ? made up the entire story.
Even if Zimmerman was attempting to do good being neighborhood watch, He still did it wrong and went too far in his pursuit. If some creepy older guy is following you in a car, would you no be concerned?
I didn't see the same reaction from you when the so called central park ? were exonerated.
http://gothamist.com/2008/08/23/exonerated_central_park_jogger_teen.php
Also, that Lacrosse case is suspect. They railroaded that girl. They even hid and misrepresented evidence.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_lacrosse_case#DNA_testsit was later revealed that DNA from multiple males who were neither the lacrosse players nor Mangum's boyfriend had been found, but that these findings had been deliberately withheld from the Court and the defense
this isn't to say that black people don't get angry, but it is an extension from all the wrong doing that occurred in the past with white people getting away. I'm speaking in these specific sort of cases dealing with race.
Also, there was as many threats towards OJ Simpson. Many blacks felt he was guilty and i don't recall racism from anyone other then whites such as Mark Furhman.
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1355/is_n24_v88/ai_17446892/"During the trial arguments, we were getting death threats faxed to the court. We had used other security, but there was so much (threats) that they couldn't handle it. The Nation of Islam came to me."
So i guess it's a human thing to be emotional and angry but often times in the black community, that anger has a valid foundation.
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@heyslick you are not answering my questions. No where did I say martin an innocent little black boy. If the public would use logic and admit wring doing and stop sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help Zimmerman defend himself none of this would be that deep. I defended martin because he shouldn't have died. I continue to defend him because of comments starting with "why do all black people" and "he isn't some innocent black kid" the ? does that have to do with this. If we weren't divided by race this conversation wouldn't be happening.
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evoljeanyes wrote: »@heyslick you are not answering my questions. No where did I say martin an innocent little black boy. If the public would use logic and admit wring doing and stop sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help Zimmerman defend himself none of this would be that deep. I defended martin because he shouldn't have died. I continue to defend him because of comments starting with "why do all black people" and "he isn't some innocent black kid" the ? does that have to do with this. If we weren't divided by race this conversation wouldn't be happening.
BULL!this entire tragedy was framed around a totally innocent child & the race baiters were in season and on national TV --the more it's unfolded things, & REAL facts are being told NOW about who and what this young man was truly up to & unfortunately a young died in the process - so bad kids come in all colors, how-come you never show this kind of outrage when the tables are turned. IMO if a black dude did this and the victim was white - how would you react?
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No it wasn't. People felt like Zimmerman never being arrested was ridiculous! It was. The story unfolded information came out and Martin, though he may have been a troublemaker, on that night had done nothing to provoke Zimmerman's action. Its not about black or white. But when people that are white are choosing to shed light on Martin's character and Zimmerman's innocence it feels racially insensitive. I don't think Zimmerman would have been free had he been black. I was upset about Casey Anthony, its just people. Race enters with the handling of the cases by the media and public.
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Lets not forget these same people have no qualms of defaming a teenager whose dead but totally ignore fact that Zimmerman is the one with the criminal past with arrests on his record...Apparantly getting suspended from school (for weed) is much more damaging to ones character than a man who was arrested several times one for fighting with a cop..
Gotta love these racist muthafuckas who sweep that ? under the rug. -
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GEORGE ZIMMERMAN IS HIDDEN AT A SAFE HOUSE
Wow, really? George Zimmerman, the self-proclaimed neighborhood watchman who killed Trayvon Martin, was officially released from jail again on Friday, July 6. Seminole County Judge Kenneth Lester set Zimmerman’s bond at $1 million. Zimmerman had to pay 10% ($100,000) to a bail bondsman and posted it. In a blog posted by his legal team, it states "As the terms of Mr. Zimmerman’s bond state that he must remain within Seminole County, Mr. Zimmerman’s security team has established a safe house where he can stay until a more permanent secure location can be established." Zimmerman goes free for the second time. Trayvon is dead. The saga continues.
By Brother Jesse -
i'm not sure it's clear, so i think it's best NOT to assume he said the most inflammatory thing possibleevoljeanyes wrote: »@janklow Tell me what it is you believe he said?
you need me to repeat myself after i JUST told you? "that i thought your argument had some problems"evoljeanyes wrote: »Also, if you don't find him innocent what are we arguing about!?
and i think that's a stupid point, because your argument is "George Zimmerman is a racist so i know he's guilty." that is not an actual rational, evidence-based argument. that is you being outraged/emotional/whatever, deciding that he must be guilty and then presuming logic agrees with you.evoljeanyes wrote: »I made the point that there is no rational way through the evidence to conclude his innocence.you gave yet to argue that.
there's a bunch of people in this thread who are allowing their emotions to dictate how they think the case should be handled. the way it SHOULD be handled is that he should get a fair trial, evidence should be presented, and if he's guilty, then he's guilty and he should do time. criticizing the way the case has been handled (say, if you think he should have been arrested immediately after the shooting as opposed to being released) is different than declaring "there is no rational way through the evidence to conclude his innocence."
you hit them with the maximum allowable count to force that plea to a lesser count, that's all. plus, with all the public outcry, if you DON'T come at Zimmerman with a heavy charge, it's going to be seen as biased.Maximus Rex wrote: »Anybody on here think that the prosecutors overcharged Zimmerman with the Murder 2? I do.
it'll only really ? them up if the jury ends up thinking "2nd degree no, 3rd degree yes" and doesn't have the option to vote for the latter. -
@janklow no family you're wrong my argument is that he went in pursuit of someone doing no wrong and as a result was beaten to the point where he felt he needed to ? . Self defense (his only argument) is out of the window because he generated the conflict.
There is no way to denounce the fact that he pursued Martin.
Your bending my conversation g. The fact that he is a racist didn't play into my argument of his guilt. Stop throwing around words to build your argument. -
well, starting with this, that's something we know after the fact. however, it doesn't mean that when he went after him, he did not believe Martin was doing something wrong. expecting him to know who Martin was and what Martin was doing is not actually a logical point.evoljeanyes wrote: »@janklow no family you're wrong my argument is that he went in pursuit of someone doing no wrong-
one man's "beaten to the point where he felt he needed to ? " might be another man's "beaten to the point where he felt the need to use deadly force"evoljeanyes wrote: »-and as a result was beaten to the point where he felt he needed to ? .
first off, let me just say that i think Zimmerman chasing after Martin for WHATEVER reason is where this whole thing went wrong. that said, depending on HOW the conflict happened, it doesn't necessarily toss self-defense out the window (although, of course, one side of the fight is not able to testify as to how it happened). but this is why there should a reasoned trial and not an emotional rush to judgment.evoljeanyes wrote: »Self defense (his only argument) is out of the window because he generated the conflict.
check your sentence construction and/or word choice again, because you're denouncing the fact that he pursued Martin.evoljeanyes wrote: »There is no way to denounce the fact that he pursued Martin.
well, let me see if i can find some prior quotes of yours i find relevant...evoljeanyes wrote: »Your bending my conversation g. The fact that he is a racist didn't play into my argument of his guilt. Stop throwing around words to build your argument.
"EVERYONE in here is ignoring that whole "? ? " comment."
so, if Zimmerman being racist has nothing to do with why you see him as guilty, why does that comment matter at all? wouldn't we all be able to ignore it and STILL see him as guilty if the racism it would represent is not being factored in?
"you listen to that tape again and explain to me how he is saying anything but "? ? " you are not making a good argument."
same point as the previous one; just pointing out here that we're still arguing this really matters towards a determination of guilt.
"everyone isn't racist. This situation is about race."
so you're arguing this case IS about race? which would make whether or not you think Zimmerman is a racist relevant?
furthermore, again, my argument is not an argument so much as it is a criticism of your argument. i'm not rooting for any side in this because it seems like either way, there's a bunch of people taking advantage of the situation. it's unfortunate. so at this point the best i can do is give a ? about HOW people make their cases. -
evoljeanyes wrote: »@heyslick you are not answering my questions. No where did I say martin an innocent little black boy. If the public would use logic and admit wring doing and stop sending hundreds of thousands of dollars to help Zimmerman defend himself none of this would be that deep. I defended martin because he shouldn't have died. I continue to defend him because of comments starting with "why do all black people" and "he isn't some innocent black kid" the ? does that have to do with this. If we weren't divided by race this conversation wouldn't be happening.
BULL!this entire tragedy was framed around a totally innocent child & the race baiters were in season and on national TV --the more it's unfolded things, & REAL facts are being told NOW about who and what this young man was truly up to & unfortunately a young died in the process - so bad kids come in all colors, how-come you never show this kind of outrage when the tables are turned. IMO if a black dude did this and the victim was white - how would you react?
what was he "truly up to" what facts support this theory -
sigh.......... ill be the first to say i dont give a ? . six black kids got followed home and shot by a BLACK PERSON a couple days ago in the city im in. this case is sone superficial ass ? . we can do self-genociide but a stupid ass half-white half-mexican dude shoots ONE kid out of his stupidity and everybody ? a brick? what the ? ever. ima need somebody to pay attention to these black zimmermans cause these kids are doing a great job killing themselves without direct help from any other color....
if the dude gets found guilty or innocent...it will do nothing to improve anybodys life at all. not at all. -
@janklow you're just trying to argue. My sentence structure was fine. Him chasing is where self defense is on Martin's side.
I said that people ignore ? ? as if that doesn't create a race theme in Zimmerman's motive. "They always get away" lol...
Look man it doesn't matter where the point is, it matters that he got that "beating" as result of his own misconduct.
You're breakingdown points to pad your argument.
He himself said he just lookedsketchy and that nothing wrong was happening. Lol. -
alright, let's do this quickly: denounce is defined as "to pronounce especially publicly to be blameworthy or evil," so "There is no way to denounce the fact that he pursued Martin" is essentially saying "there is no way to blame the fact that he pursued Martin." okay? okay.evoljeanyes wrote: »@janklow you're just trying to argue. My sentence structure was fine. Him chasing is where self defense is on Martin's side.
you're saying that whether or not Zimmerman is racist "didn't play into my argument of his guilt." so why does it matter whether nor not he said that? one second, you're bashing the forum for skipping over the remark, another you're trying to claim it has nothing to do with Zimmerman's guilt.evoljeanyes wrote: »I said that people ignore ? ? as if that doesn't create a race theme in Zimmerman's motive. "They always get away" lol...
then perhaps we could focus on this argument? or do you want to go back to the racism thing?evoljeanyes wrote: »Look man it doesn't matter where the point is, it matters that he got that "beating" as result of his own misconduct. -
@Janklow I feel you man, I just think you have picked up on some of my argument with you and Heyslick!
Zimmerman was the initiator of the conflict. Yes he deserves a fair trial. I just think him initiating the conflict makes it pretty cut and dry. That's all.
We're all people! We should figure out how to live together harmoniously. -
evoljeanyes wrote: »@janklow you're just trying to argue. My sentence structure was fine. Him chasing is where self defense is on Martin's side.
I said that people ignore ? ? as if that doesn't create a race theme in Zimmerman's motive. "They always get away" lol...
Look man it doesn't matter where the point is, it matters that he got that "beating" as result of his own misconduct.
You're breakingdown points to pad your argument.
He himself said he just lookedsketchy and that nothing wrong was happening. Lol.
who knows what he said it could've been "? ", but its really irrelevant. unless they were charging him w/ a hate crime. which they haven't done so far....
and i while i do believe zimmerman had his prejudices and had trayvon been white he probably would've never drawn zimmerman's suspensions....i really don't believe he purposely went looking hunt down and ? a black man.
besides that. i'm w/ you though.... from what we know to be fact, i've come to the conclusion that zimmerman chased after trayvon, lost him, they somehow came back into contact w/ each other, words were exchanged, a fight ensued, zimmerman lost the upper hand, and pulled the trigger ending trayvon's young life.....
and i def don't believe zimmerman's claim that trayvon was this blood ? thug who was bashing his head into the concrete. especially considering all the things we've learned about gz so far. he has a history of anger issues. he has been the subject of numerous complaints from his neighbors for his aggressive tactics while acting as the unofficial neighbor hood watch. he called 911 what 41 times over the last year or so. he has lied to the courts already....imho all of this paints a picture of a troubled vigilante that got in way over his head. and now will say anything to get out of trouble...
he didn't even feel the need to go to the ER that night and his clothes were suspiciously unblemished after this supposedly brutal, life threatening beating he endured...
not to mention gz claim that trayvon circled his truck in a menacing manner sometime before he decided to run. my question is why would you get out your truck after that? and why would you not mention this bit of info to the dispatcher? lol...
really this is just a classic case of manslaughter... at the end of the day gz's actions directly or one could argue indirectly lead to the death of another human being. he should have to face some form of punishment....
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there's some bipolar stuff going on with these posts today and i don't know how i would NOT pick up on an argument between you and i, but okay, this post is fair enough.evoljeanyes wrote: »@Janklow I feel you man, I just think you have picked up on some of my argument with you and Heyslick! Zimmerman was the initiator of the conflict. Yes he deserves a fair trial. I just think him initiating the conflict makes it pretty cut and dry. That's all. We're all people! We should figure out how to live together harmoniously.
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Lets not forget these same people have no qualms of defaming a teenager whose dead but totally ignore fact that Zimmerman is the one with the criminal past with arrests on his record...Apparantly getting suspended from school (for weed) is much more damaging to ones character than a man who was arrested several times one for fighting with a cop..
Gotta love these racist muthafuckas who sweep that ? under the rug.
Bingo......... -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Lets not forget these same people have no qualms of defaming a teenager whose dead but totally ignore fact that Zimmerman is the one with the criminal past with arrests on his record...Apparantly getting suspended from school (for weed) is much more damaging to ones character than a man who was arrested several times one for fighting with a cop..
Gotta love these racist muthafuckas who sweep that ? under the rug.
Bingo.........
How come both of you slid his school record under the rug OR was it conveniently overlooked? we should wouldn't wanna avoid the rest of the story,right?
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Here's what some refuse to understand & the rest of the story.
http://news.yahoo.com/blogs/cutline/zimmerman-neighbor-rash-robberies-young-black-men-trayvon-145647987.html -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Lets not forget these same people have no qualms of defaming a teenager whose dead but totally ignore fact that Zimmerman is the one with the criminal past with arrests on his record...Apparantly getting suspended from school (for weed) is much more damaging to ones character than a man who was arrested several times one for fighting with a cop..
Gotta love these racist muthafuckas who sweep that ? under the rug.
Bingo.........
How come both of you slid his school record under the rug OR was it conveniently overlooked? we should wouldn't wanna avoid the rest of the story,right?
So a suspension from school as a teenager (he was an A student by the way) is on the same field or worse (judging from the countless times u racist ? seem to bring it up over and over) as a grown man with multiple arrest one for fighting with a police officer...On what ? planet do you live on? -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Lets not forget these same people have no qualms of defaming a teenager whose dead but totally ignore fact that Zimmerman is the one with the criminal past with arrests on his record...Apparantly getting suspended from school (for weed) is much more damaging to ones character than a man who was arrested several times one for fighting with a cop..
Gotta love these racist muthafuckas who sweep that ? under the rug.
Bingo.........
How come both of you slid his school record under the rug OR was it conveniently overlooked? we should wouldn't wanna avoid the rest of the story,right?
So a suspension from school as a teenager (he was an A student by the way) is on the same field or worse (judging from the countless times u racist ? seem to bring it up over and over) as a grown man with multiple arrest one for fighting with a police officer...On what ? planet do you live on?
Did you even read the article? - STOP claiming this young man was a totally innocent little child & wasn't up to anything other than getting candy and iced tea - BS!! BTW I have my feet on the ground & my head isn't in the clouds. A young man lost his life & that is a tragedy for the parents....especially his mother who birthed that child. Y did Trayvon have to get into a confrontation (which he was winning) & with a man who was legally carrying & had the right to defend himself - END OF STORY.
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IMO
This person tells it like it is - if a black man had killed this young man - most if not everyone wouldn't be outraged at all. The hypocrisy is SO overt.
Actually he was suspended numerous times. ONE time being for tardiness and truancy. Another time he was suspended for drugs. Yet another he was suspended, this according to school officials, for being caught on camera vandalizing a locker(writing W.T.F.) on them in permanent marker. After reviewing the tape and concluding that it was indeed Martin that was the offender, the school resource officer searched his book bag to find the marker and found, guess what?! 12 pieces of women's jewelry and a men's watch and a screwdriver. Why does a kid have 12 pieces of women's jewelry in his backpack? Why isn't that watch on his wrist if it's his? Why does he have a screwdriver? For any loose hinges he might run into?
Like the original article says I don't know if he should be dead or not, I wasn't there. However, people like you trying to make him into some kind of saint really irritates me. The kid was obviously on the wrong path and judging by his tweets fancied himself some kind of gangster. Personally, I couldn't care less if he's dead or alive. Hundreds of people die in this country every day, why is this thieving kid more important than LEGITIMATELY good people?
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kingblaze84 wrote: »Lets not forget these same people have no qualms of defaming a teenager whose dead but totally ignore fact that Zimmerman is the one with the criminal past with arrests on his record...Apparantly getting suspended from school (for weed) is much more damaging to ones character than a man who was arrested several times one for fighting with a cop..
Gotta love these racist muthafuckas who sweep that ? under the rug.
Bingo.........
How come both of you slid his school record under the rug OR was it conveniently overlooked? we should wouldn't wanna avoid the rest of the story,right?
So a suspension from school as a teenager (he was an A student by the way) is on the same field or worse (judging from the countless times u racist ? seem to bring it up over and over) as a grown man with multiple arrest one for fighting with a police officer...On what ? planet do you live on?
Did you even read the article? - STOP claiming this young man was a totally innocent little child & wasn't up to anything other than getting candy and iced tea - BS!! BTW I have my feet on the ground & my head isn't in the clouds. A young man lost his life & that is a tragedy for the parents....especially his mother who birthed that child. Y did Trayvon have to get into a confrontation (which he was winning) & with a man who was legally carrying & had the right to defend himself - END OF STORY.
Reading is fundamental...something u failed at obviously in school...No I never said Trayvon was an innocent child..re read my post I have stated that apparantly to you school suspensions in high school is FAR WORSE THAN AN ADULT WITH MULTIPLE ARRESTS..its apparent why you and people like you think this is so.
Being a racist ? clouds your logical judgement.
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guess what, guys: both Trayvon's past AND Zimmerman's past don't really tell us what happened. so all it reveals is who you want to blame
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