The Official Los Angeles Lakers 2012-2013 Season
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Bringing in somebody for Pau will do what again??? if Pau aint getting touches..you think the person they will bring Pau will..lets say they bring in Amare....Will he put up better numbers??? lol..I mean folk..if Pau can't shoot how can his numbers go up..
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Knock_Twice wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »Knock_Twice, Kobe is no longer playing the role he played under Phil. Under Phil he played more a facilitator role until it was time for him to take over. This was mainly because Fisher isn't a pass-first PG. He's more of the spot up shooter type.
With D'Antoni's offense, Nash's SOLE role is the facilitator, while Kobe's is simply the scorer and the closer. It's not Kobe's job to get others involved. But tbh I don't even know why I'm saying this because this should be obvious. Kobe has said this in multiple interviews. They ask him how him and Nash are going to co-exist and he tells them Nash will do what he does best, which is facilitate, while Kobe will do what he does best, which is score.
It's not Kobe's job to get others involved?? huh...why not though...I think you're miss understanding what I'm saying..I'm saying like this..the games I've watched..it's very rare that Kobe gets his shots from off of Nash facilitating as you say..let's be honest.."most if not all of Kobe shots are from Kobe doing the facilitating on his own which in this offense shouldn't be....and what I'm sayin is Kobe needs to "pass" the ball more so within the offense...be real..how many times have you heard other than last night.."Kobe swings the ball to the corner and a cross court pass from Kobe"....rarely and this is what I mean by getting others involve..he gotta pass up shots to get the others involved...and I'm not saying pass up "wide-up" shots but if you're working to get your shot..then you need to swing the ball maybe...dude goes one on one too much and this offense is not setup to be that way...if you don't see it...check at the difference between Melo now under Mike Woodson and Melo under D'tona..most of Melo shots up catch and shot this year...off of Felton pentration or pick in roll with him and somebody...under D'tona Melo shots were "being created off the dribble" like how Kobe is doing within the offense..that kills the rhythm and thus shots are "forced" and come harder...
In other words, you want a 17-year veteran to change up his playing style of all these years of winning and success. Kobe's assist this season are 4.8 a game. That's definitely in the upper half for shooting guards.
Here's another fun fact: Kobe's career average is 4.7apg, the year he won his 4th title he averaged 5apg... and the year he won his 5th title he put up 4.7apg.
Conclusion: he's passing enough and he's playing the same way he's been playing for his entire career.
In sum, the key to changing this team around is trading Gasol for better support players who won't whine about the offense not fitting them, and who know their role. -
Knock_Twice wrote: »Bringing in somebody for Pau will do what again??? if Pau aint getting touches..you think the person they will bring Pau will..lets say they bring in Amare....Will he put up better numbers??? lol..I mean folk..if Pau can't shoot how can his numbers go up..
Amare? Just like Pau, he needs his touches to be effective and he's a name player. I specifically said trade Pau for ROLE PLAYERS who don't care about touches. They know they're role players and they do their job.
We have 3 stars, we don't need another 1 whining about how he can't play his game because blah blah blah... -
Careful bro, Thou shall not criticize Emperor KOBE around this parts. I am glad some one else is stating the obvious. Everytime i have tried to make the same points u have made, i have been called a Kobe hater or President of the Gasol fan club (Which i am, Proudly).
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NothingButTheTruth wrote: »Knock_Twice wrote: »Bringing in somebody for Pau will do what again??? if Pau aint getting touches..you think the person they will bring Pau will..lets say they bring in Amare....Will he put up better numbers??? lol..I mean folk..if Pau can't shoot how can his numbers go up..
Amare? Just like Pau, he needs his touches to be effective and he's a name player. I specifically said trade Pau for ROLE PLAYERS who don't care about touches. They know they're role players and they do their job.
We have 3 stars, we don't need another 1 whining about how he can't play his game because blah blah blah...
I agree with you on the role players ordeal..I agree...but again folk..their 'approach' to the game has to change first...it's will continue to be alot of bickering back and forth if they don't change and play 'within' the system. -
that vetoed trade still haunts Pau to this day, i dont even blame him for not having his heart in it.
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Pau is a ? .
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NothingButTheTruth wrote: »Knock_Twice wrote: »NothingButTheTruth wrote: »Knock_Twice, Kobe is no longer playing the role he played under Phil. Under Phil he played more a facilitator role until it was time for him to take over. This was mainly because Fisher isn't a pass-first PG. He's more of the spot up shooter type.
With D'Antoni's offense, Nash's SOLE role is the facilitator, while Kobe's is simply the scorer and the closer. It's not Kobe's job to get others involved. But tbh I don't even know why I'm saying this because this should be obvious. Kobe has said this in multiple interviews. They ask him how him and Nash are going to co-exist and he tells them Nash will do what he does best, which is facilitate, while Kobe will do what he does best, which is score.
It's not Kobe's job to get others involved?? huh...why not though...I think you're miss understanding what I'm saying..I'm saying like this..the games I've watched..it's very rare that Kobe gets his shots from off of Nash facilitating as you say..let's be honest.."most if not all of Kobe shots are from Kobe doing the facilitating on his own which in this offense shouldn't be....and what I'm sayin is Kobe needs to "pass" the ball more so within the offense...be real..how many times have you heard other than last night.."Kobe swings the ball to the corner and a cross court pass from Kobe"....rarely and this is what I mean by getting others involve..he gotta pass up shots to get the others involved...and I'm not saying pass up "wide-up" shots but if you're working to get your shot..then you need to swing the ball maybe...dude goes one on one too much and this offense is not setup to be that way...if you don't see it...check at the difference between Melo now under Mike Woodson and Melo under D'tona..most of Melo shots up catch and shot this year...off of Felton pentration or pick in roll with him and somebody...under D'tona Melo shots were "being created off the dribble" like how Kobe is doing within the offense..that kills the rhythm and thus shots are "forced" and come harder...
In other words, you want a 17-year veteran to change up his playing style of all these years of winning and success. Kobe's assist this season are 4.8 a game. That's definitely in the upper half for shooting guards.
Here's another fun fact: Kobe's career average is 4.7apg, the year he won his 4th title he averaged 5apg... and the year he won his 5th title he put up 4.7apg.
Conclusion: he's passing enough and he's playing the same way he's been playing for his entire career.
In sum, the key to changing this team around is trading Gasol for better support players who won't whine about the offense not fitting them, and who know their role.
Lol Folk I'm a Kobe fan and his game doesn't fit this style of offense lets be honest..Lets take a break from the Lakers and look at Team USA..they ran the same style and how did Kobe fair?? He played within the offense..yea you may say they had a team full of allstars..and I will say the Lakers have a team full of all-stars too lol..so whats the difference between the two teams...The "approach"..he went into those games trying to let the other players establish themselves..he passed the ball and went to his spots in the offense..if his ass needed to be in the corner on a specific set he took his ass there and waited for the down screen..and if he came off the screen and didn't have the shot..he passed the ball..he didn't create..hold the ball and try to make a difficult shot..he deferred to the others...and kept moving off of screens until he got himself a good look..
This year..Kobe may use one screen and then it's create off the dribble..not good..yea he scores becuz he's Kobe but now you got the others watchin the game...shid grab some popcorn and lets watch this nga...that aint the style of this offense..the triangle is good for that style..not this type of offense folk
folk during that run this year Team USA..Kobe rarely created his shot...and still got his points and they came so "easy" and even look at Lebron..he got his within the offense and so did Durant..they rarely had to work hard to get a shot up..it was more catch and shoot..CP3 played pick n roll ball and when the defense collasped on him he kicked it out to a wide open Durant..or Kobe..
When Lebron was the PG he played pick n roll ball with T.Chanlleor within the offense he brought the defense to him and he either kicked it out or it was a lob or he had an uncontested shot at the elbow lol....he rarley cleared one side of the court and went one on one..or they rarely created their shots outside of that offense...
Their approach was different than how the Lakers are approaching the game..well Kobe..he needs to go back to how he came into the game when he was on those TEAM USA teams -
Umm.. we dont have team USA talent on the lakers fam... just sayin.. ? damn no one can create their own shot aside from kobe/ nash.. nash doesnt shoot enough.. everyone else needs to bee spoonfed..
Pau gets routinely rooted out by 6'5 ? .. last game we was rooted out by Andre ? miller for rebound position.. mini rant over. -
Folk..you're missing the point..you're looking at the talent and names...look at the approach of how each player went to the game...they all played within the offense..the same offense that the Lakers run..ask yourself would they have won if they came in with the approach the Lakers have..would they have beaten Pau and his brother?? prolly but it would have been ugly as ?
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playmaker88 wrote: »Umm.. we dont have team USA talent on the lakers fam... just sayin.. ? damn no one can create their own shot aside from kobe/ nash.. nash doesnt shoot enough.. everyone else needs to bee spoonfed..
Pau gets routinely rooted out by 6'5 ? .. last game we was rooted out by Andre ? miller for rebound position.. mini rant over.
Lol...Pau is soft no doubt..but ask yourself..how many on the Suns team could create their own shot?? hell even Stoudamire needed to be spoon fed...all he could do was dunk when he first came in..Nash made dude develop a 12ft jumper around the foul-line area..and he took off..Bell couldn't..Marion couldn't nor could Tim Thomas or Diaw...This offense is driven off of people being spoon fed and ball movement...
The only person could was Joe Johnson and he wasn't a fit so what happened..off he went..only becuz dude was young Mike had the ? to get rid of dude...but now he's coaching vets and egos so it's hard for him (it seems) to tell a 17 year vet like Kobe to swing the ball or let the others get involved..
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Are you really serious right now.. you have to have the will/talent to execute.
again Kobe is running off ball.. what are you not seeing.. Pau used to hit 17 foot jumpers with consistency.. Jordan Hill is hittin those damn shots.... You are not confined to one action when you get the ball.. he can drive ... granted he needs to be foul line down.. that doesnt speak to any of the other ? he does or doesnt do.... -
Knock twice keep bodying em duke wit facts.Objective good points being made by kt
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On this day 10 years ago the Shaq/Kobe/ Phil lakers were 15-20 ..... They finished the season with 50 wins....the sky hasn't fallen yet.
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magic johnson done got into the act, lol
@MagicJohnson's Twitter rant about the Lakers: says Kobe needs to lead more, Nash score more, Dwight complain less & Pau stop being soft
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Knock_Twice wrote: »This is the big difference in Mike D'tona..he doesn't hold Kobe or single dude out for ? ....Dude you see getting 37 and Howard having 9 and Pau with 7 points aint working...why not pull Kobe to the side and tell/demand the nga to play within the offense...he don't do this..and back to what I was saying between the NY this year the NY when D-tona had them...Mike Woodson is telling Melo you gotta move the ball..your shots will come and you have to get them within the offense...less one on on..more elbow jumpers within the offense and pass the ball to the other players..that's why you see Felton numbers up..old ass J.Kid numbers up..Novak numbers up...they bought into playing within that offense...Melo isn't trying to do it himself..he's passing up shots and getting J.R. involved..That's the big difference with the NY this year than last year under M'Donta..
dude just needs to check Kobe about his approach to the game...he has to let Howard get his shots "within" the offense and pick-n-roll with Nash should be their bread n butter..or with Pau...not Kobe and Howard..not Kobe and Pau..Nash with one of those two and the shots with kobe will come...This will fix alot of their problems...
Unlike the Knicks the Lakers have Leadership on their team . A lot veteran players that assert themselves when needed. People was acting like I was talking crazy but Jason Kidd's leadership>>> Carmelo's Scoring -
Careful bro, Thou shall not criticize Emperor KOBE around this parts. I am glad some one else is stating the obvious. Everytime i have tried to make the same points u have made, i have been called a Kobe hater or President of the Gasol fan club (Which i am, Proudly).
Do what you do. Feel free. Don't catch feelings when you're called out about your presidency.
Before you start talking greasy by making broad statements, I don't think the Lakers should trade your ? but it might be in his and the team's best interest. -
MC The Rapper wrote: »Knock_Twice wrote: »This is the big difference in Mike D'tona..he doesn't hold Kobe or single dude out for ? ....Dude you see getting 37 and Howard having 9 and Pau with 7 points aint working...why not pull Kobe to the side and tell/demand the nga to play within the offense...he don't do this..and back to what I was saying between the NY this year the NY when D-tona had them...Mike Woodson is telling Melo you gotta move the ball..your shots will come and you have to get them within the offense...less one on on..more elbow jumpers within the offense and pass the ball to the other players..that's why you see Felton numbers up..old ass J.Kid numbers up..Novak numbers up...they bought into playing within that offense...Melo isn't trying to do it himself..he's passing up shots and getting J.R. involved..That's the big difference with the NY this year than last year under M'Donta..
dude just needs to check Kobe about his approach to the game...he has to let Howard get his shots "within" the offense and pick-n-roll with Nash should be their bread n butter..or with Pau...not Kobe and Howard..not Kobe and Pau..Nash with one of those two and the shots with kobe will come...This will fix alot of their problems...
Unlike the Knicks the Lakers have Leadership on their team . A lot veteran players that assert themselves when needed. People was acting like I was talking crazy but Jason Kidd's leadership>>> Carmelo's Scoring
Big difference... Jason Kidd has a ring Melo don't he has no choice to listen..and plus he played with Dirk..his rep is certified
Nash has no rings Kobe has 5 so IMO I don't think Kobe will listen to Nash or anybody..I doubt that he listens to Mike Dotani if it don't involve him being in the play.. lol...nga didn't listen to Phil at times...it's all about his attitude to me...he needs to become more humble and accept the structure of the team and this situation...alot of things fall on the coach..Dotani has to be more firm and stop side-steppin ? ...
In the media I think he was asked last night about the defense and he states the say that they can't keep digging themselves in a hole..I mean that's not coaching..nga call out whose not doing there part lol...call out the person whose missing rotation or not fightin over pick..just don't say "oh we can't give up that many points" that's not helping out the situation...pick the ? apart and address each player on their faults..see Phil called out Shaq and Kobe when ? wasn't right..he may have said the statement but he came back with something direct to a certain player not pulling their weight....That's the ? I don't like about Mike...and folks prolly will say..you aint in the locker room he may be calling out players..and I'll say to them well he can't be calling out Kobe becuz the ? Defense friday night against the Clippers was terrible..Matt Barnes?? Matt Barnes pulled a 3 pointer in the nga grill..even Jeff the commantor calling the game called out Kobe lol..come on mayne...and Mike can't see this..the ? commentator calling out ? defense by this dude lol
It's like he's going out and scoring 38 for the Mass so we can say "oh well it aint Kobe he's coming to play, it's the others who need to step up"....yea tru but again..how is he getting his 38 is what I tell those same folks..is it within the offense..is he shooting over 2 and 3 guys...this nga use to live at the line...now he' rarely goes...Folks gotta start being real and calling dude out on his approach to these games..until he changes and Mike D'Tona gets some ? and single him out..then this team will be only good for a 1st round appearance if that...and now what happens next year...Howard of course will leave...any nga with a brain knows this...dude aint dumb he knows he wont be the player he can be with Kobe playing the way he's playing now...and now you're back at square one even worse..No Howard nor No Bynum and No picks lol.... -
Dwight and pau are out. It's hard to imagine them not making the playoffs but its starting to look this is the team they are. I don't see them improving at a consistent enough level to make any sort of push.
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northside7 wrote: »Careful bro, Thou shall not criticize Emperor KOBE around this parts. I am glad some one else is stating the obvious. Everytime i have tried to make the same points u have made, i have been called a Kobe hater or President of the Gasol fan club (Which i am, Proudly).
Do what you do. Feel free. Don't catch feelings when you're called out about your presidency.
Before you start talking greasy by making broad statements, I don't think the Lakers should trade your ? but it might be in his and the team's best interest.
LMAO, u are funny.
I actully agree with u that trading Pau might be in his and the team's best interest. -
newOldSchool wrote: »Dwight and pau are out. It's hard to imagine them not making the playoffs but its starting to look this is the team they are. I don't see them improving at a consistent enough level to make any sort of push.
Looks like Hill is out too. -
The lakers have 0 leadership. Anyone who thinks Kobe's style of leadership is good for this team I'd like to hear from you. The truth is Kobe has never had to lead and doesn't know how. Phil was the leader in practice and fisher was the leader in the locker room. Kobe thought he was the leader but the team followed fisher's voice. Obviously Kobe wasn't the leader for the Shaquille era and either was Shaquille. It was Rick fox, Brian shaw, Ron Harper, Horace grant. Kobe is a basket maker, one of the best ever, but not a leader that motivates others.
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Knock_Twice wrote: »MC The Rapper wrote: »Knock_Twice wrote: »This is the big difference in Mike D'tona..he doesn't hold Kobe or single dude out for ? ....Dude you see getting 37 and Howard having 9 and Pau with 7 points aint working...why not pull Kobe to the side and tell/demand the nga to play within the offense...he don't do this..and back to what I was saying between the NY this year the NY when D-tona had them...Mike Woodson is telling Melo you gotta move the ball..your shots will come and you have to get them within the offense...less one on on..more elbow jumpers within the offense and pass the ball to the other players..that's why you see Felton numbers up..old ass J.Kid numbers up..Novak numbers up...they bought into playing within that offense...Melo isn't trying to do it himself..he's passing up shots and getting J.R. involved..That's the big difference with the NY this year than last year under M'Donta..
dude just needs to check Kobe about his approach to the game...he has to let Howard get his shots "within" the offense and pick-n-roll with Nash should be their bread n butter..or with Pau...not Kobe and Howard..not Kobe and Pau..Nash with one of those two and the shots with kobe will come...This will fix alot of their problems...
Unlike the Knicks the Lakers have Leadership on their team . A lot veteran players that assert themselves when needed. People was acting like I was talking crazy but Jason Kidd's leadership>>> Carmelo's Scoring
Big difference... Jason Kidd has a ring Melo don't
Nash has no rings Kobe has 5 so IMO I don't think Kobe will listen to Nash or anybody..I doubt that he listens to Mike Dotani if it don't involve him being in the play.. lol...nga didn't listen to Phil at times...it's all about his attitude to me...he needs to become more humble and accept the structure of the team and this situation...alot of things fall on the coach..Dotani has to be more firm and stop side-steppin ? ...
In the media I think he was asked last night about the defense and he states the say that they can't keep digging themselves in a hole..I mean that's not coaching..nga call out whose not doing there part lol...call out the person whose missing rotation or not fightin over pick..just don't say "oh we can't give up that many points" that's not helping out the situation...pick the ? apart and address each player on their faults..see Phil called out Shaq and Kobe when ? wasn't right..he may have said the statement but he came back with something direct to a certain player not pulling their weight....That's the ? I don't like about Mike...and folks prolly will say..you aint in the locker room he may be calling out players..and I'll say to them well he can't be calling out Kobe becuz the ? Defense friday night against the Clippers was terrible..Matt Barnes?? Matt Barnes pulled a 3 pointer in the nga grill..even Jeff the commantor calling the game called out Kobe lol..come on mayne...and Mike can't see this..the ? commentator calling out ? defense by this dude lol
It's like he's going out and scoring 38 for the Mass so we can say "oh well it aint Kobe he's coming to play, it's the others who need to step up"....yea tru but again..how is he getting his 38 is what I tell those same folks..is it within the offense..is he shooting over 2 and 3 guys...this nga use to live at the line...now he' rarely goes...Folks gotta start being real and calling dude out on his approach to these games..until he changes and Mike D'Tona gets some ? and single him out..then this team will be only good for a 1st round appearance if that...and now what happens next year...Howard of course will leave...any nga with a brain knows this...dude aint dumb he knows he wont be the player he can be with Kobe playing the way he's playing now...and now you're back at square one even worse..No Howard nor No Bynum and No picks lol....
You talking bout the 34 year old, 17 year vet, Bean Bryant? To change now? lol
@ your "no Howard, no Bynum, no picks" You must have forgot which franchise you're talking about. Are you even a Lakers fan? -
northside7 wrote: »Knock_Twice wrote: »MC The Rapper wrote: »Knock_Twice wrote: »This is the big difference in Mike D'tona..he doesn't hold Kobe or single dude out for ? ....Dude you see getting 37 and Howard having 9 and Pau with 7 points aint working...why not pull Kobe to the side and tell/demand the nga to play within the offense...he don't do this..and back to what I was saying between the NY this year the NY when D-tona had them...Mike Woodson is telling Melo you gotta move the ball..your shots will come and you have to get them within the offense...less one on on..more elbow jumpers within the offense and pass the ball to the other players..that's why you see Felton numbers up..old ass J.Kid numbers up..Novak numbers up...they bought into playing within that offense...Melo isn't trying to do it himself..he's passing up shots and getting J.R. involved..That's the big difference with the NY this year than last year under M'Donta..
dude just needs to check Kobe about his approach to the game...he has to let Howard get his shots "within" the offense and pick-n-roll with Nash should be their bread n butter..or with Pau...not Kobe and Howard..not Kobe and Pau..Nash with one of those two and the shots with kobe will come...This will fix alot of their problems...
Unlike the Knicks the Lakers have Leadership on their team . A lot veteran players that assert themselves when needed. People was acting like I was talking crazy but Jason Kidd's leadership>>> Carmelo's Scoring
Big difference... Jason Kidd has a ring Melo don't
Nash has no rings Kobe has 5 so IMO I don't think Kobe will listen to Nash or anybody..I doubt that he listens to Mike Dotani if it don't involve him being in the play.. lol...nga didn't listen to Phil at times...it's all about his attitude to me...he needs to become more humble and accept the structure of the team and this situation...alot of things fall on the coach..Dotani has to be more firm and stop side-steppin ? ...
In the media I think he was asked last night about the defense and he states the say that they can't keep digging themselves in a hole..I mean that's not coaching..nga call out whose not doing there part lol...call out the person whose missing rotation or not fightin over pick..just don't say "oh we can't give up that many points" that's not helping out the situation...pick the ? apart and address each player on their faults..see Phil called out Shaq and Kobe when ? wasn't right..he may have said the statement but he came back with something direct to a certain player not pulling their weight....That's the ? I don't like about Mike...and folks prolly will say..you aint in the locker room he may be calling out players..and I'll say to them well he can't be calling out Kobe becuz the ? Defense friday night against the Clippers was terrible..Matt Barnes?? Matt Barnes pulled a 3 pointer in the nga grill..even Jeff the commantor calling the game called out Kobe lol..come on mayne...and Mike can't see this..the ? commentator calling out ? defense by this dude lol
It's like he's going out and scoring 38 for the Mass so we can say "oh well it aint Kobe he's coming to play, it's the others who need to step up"....yea tru but again..how is he getting his 38 is what I tell those same folks..is it within the offense..is he shooting over 2 and 3 guys...this nga use to live at the line...now he' rarely goes...Folks gotta start being real and calling dude out on his approach to these games..until he changes and Mike D'Tona gets some ? and single him out..then this team will be only good for a 1st round appearance if that...and now what happens next year...Howard of course will leave...any nga with a brain knows this...dude aint dumb he knows he wont be the player he can be with Kobe playing the way he's playing now...and now you're back at square one even worse..No Howard nor No Bynum and No picks lol....
You talking bout the 34 year old, 17 year vet, Bean Bryant? To change now? lol
@ your "no Howard, no Bynum, no picks" You must have forgot which franchise you're talking about. Are you even a Lakers fan?
What you mean folk
Howard don't have to sign with the lakers after this year and if the team suck and him and Kobe have these battles...I don't think he will sign- (No Howard)
And I mentioned Bynum by him leaving last year...They got rid of dude to get Howard..so going into next year you can possible lose Howard and of course you wouldn't have Bynum - No Bynum..traded him for nothing is what I mean
and no picks...Didn't the Lakers give up picks to get Nash??? (No Picks)
Are you even a Lakers fan??
This discussion has been closed.