It's crazy how Jay's the only NY rapper that never fell off
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I'm still hoping that this ? is an act....I would think that sun wouldve fallen back after Jay told him the difference between a 4.0 and a 4.6....lol -
Jay did drop a commercial album without Kanye, it's called Kingdom Come and it went double platinum.
If Kanye can make ? go platinum like that, why can't Common, Big Sean, Good Music go platinum then. -
vanilla ice sold 14 mill.....GOAT
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sales matter.
but they dont make you the GOAT.
Nas has yet to fall off.
Dude is not too mainstream but not too underground. -
bankrupt baller wrote: »vanilla ice sold 14 mill.....GOAT
Typical dumb ? logic, lets choose the worst rapper ever and use his massive sales like it's the normal. Guess what, Tupac, Biggie, and Jay also sold millions more than Nas and they have classic albums and timeless records. See how that works.
Anyone can pick a ? rapper who sells and act like it's the norm, but those ? rappers don't have the catalogs of Pac, Big, and Jay. -
Not selling records doesn't necessarily mean you fell off. Nas doesn't sell millions like he used to because he doesn't try to pander to the masses. He's not concerned with "the rap game" he's concerned with pushing the limits of his creativity and craft. Stillmatic, ? 's Son, Street's Disciple, Hip Hop Is Dead, (untitled), and Distant Relatives are all releases nearly completely void of any attempts to please all sides of the fence. Nas didn't fall off, he was real enough to not give a ? about the fake love and walk away to make real music.
Then what do you call this? Blatant crossover attempts
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u2de0RBcqiE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0xvcXkKzd7Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6903zFUIxoU
You ? are the biggest hypocrites ever and conveniently turn a blind eye to ? that contradicts your stance.
First of all out of all the albums I named (Stillmatic, The Lost Tapes, ? 's Son, Street's Disciple, Hip Hop Is Dead, (untitled), Distant Relatives) and all the years they covered from 2001 all the way to now, you were able to produce 3 videos that you claim are examples of Nas pandering to the masses in attempts to crossover. "We Make The World Go Round" I'll give you that one but that's it. -
"Hero" has a commercial kinda gloss to it but if you listen to what he's saying there are no traces of pandering to anyone: "My lawyers only see the billboard charts as winning/forgetting Nas has been a true rebel since the beginning/still in musical prison, in jail for the flow/try telling Bob Dylan, Bruce or Billy Joel they can't sing what's in they soul/so untitled it is I never changed nothing my people remember this/if Nas can't say it think about these talented kids/with new ideas being told what they can and can't spit...".
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And "Cherry Wine" damn sure is not a crossover attempt. Just because a song sounds half way nice or is directed towards a female in some kind of endearing way or has a female singing the chorus doesn't mean it's a shameless attempt to crossover. I mean damn, a ? can't just make a song that just rides and sounds nice without being labeled a sell out or a wannabe mainstream star or somethin. You want the ? to just make entire albums full of "NY State of Minds" and "We're Not Alone's" and "Loco-Motives". Maybe the ? don't wanna make hard ass street anthems or deep ass songs all day but that doesn't mean he's trying to please everybody through crossover attempts.
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Nas played "the rap game" from 1996 to about 2000/2001. You could tell through the music he was producing during that time frame that appealing to the masses was much higher on his list of things to do. Stillmatic was kinda like him pressing the reset button on his career and since then you'd be hard pressed to find many examples of him making anything other than music he wanted to make. He made "We Make The World Go Round". So. Does that mean that crossing over is his top priority and he's mainly and mostly concerned with selling records? No.
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This is Nas we're talking about. This is the same Nas whose sophomore album debuted at #1 on the billboard charts and stayed there for a month straight, this is the same guy who played the role of Robert De Niro in Casino in the "Street Dreams" video (pink suit, bad ass black ? and all), this is the same guy who was in a white mink suit and hat next to Puff Daddy in the "Hate Me Now" video while Puff was pouring Crystal all over the place and Nas was walking away from giant explosions of fire behind him, this is the same Nas who was jiggin' next to a bunch of dimes (including Destiny's Child) and Ginuwine in "You Owe Me", this is the same guy who played Jennifer Lopez's love interest in her #1 single "I'ma Be Alright", this is the same guy who was on a flashy motorbike in "Hot Boyz" with Missy, this is the same guy who was standing in a lit up Times Square singing "If I Ruled The World" with Lauryn, this is the same guy who sold 470,000 copies of I Am in a week despite being heavily bootlegged by the new trend of illegally downloading music, this is the same guy whose weakest album - Nastradamus - went platinum in a month despite not having a jugganaut hit single.
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My point is he has a well documented history of successfully playing the rap game and if that were truly what he is still concerned with, he could and would do a whole lot more than make one song with Chris Brown or throw Amy Winehouse or Keri Hilson on a hook. If he really wanted to, he could go out and make an entire album full of flashy production from the most well known, "come to me if you need a hit" producers in the game such as The Neptunes, Timbaland, Just Blaze, Kanye West etc and fill it to the max with features from Drake and Nicki and Big Sean and T-Pain (and whatever other sweet ass ? are hot nowadays) and even Justin Bieber in a desperate attempt to sell records but he doesn't.
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Instead, he makes relentlessly creative projects like Distant Relatives with Damian Marley and makes thought provoking records like every other one of the 14 songs from (untitled) (that you didn't wanna talk about because you were busy cherry picking the one song from that album that best fit your argument) and releases lead singles like "Nasty" from Life Is Good and "Made You Look" from ? 's Son and "Thief's Theme" from Street's Disciple. My point is you can tell from the moves he's been making and the music he's been creating for the last about 11 or 12 years that appealing and pandering to the masses doesn't take up a lot of space in his head.
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bankrupt baller wrote: »vanilla ice sold 14 mill.....GOAT
Typical dumb ? logic, lets choose the worst rapper ever and use his massive sales like it's the normal. Guess what, Tupac, Biggie, and Jay also sold millions more than Nas and they have classic albums and timeless records. See how that works.
Anyone can pick a ? rapper who sells and act like it's the norm, but those ? rappers don't have the catalogs of Pac, Big, and Jay.
it wasnt intended to be a good argument....it was just to get you all emotional....it worked better than any good argument could have -
Distant Relatives: Nyquil. Is that some kind of joke both of them ? did they thing in a major way on that record. To say one of them bodied the other one is silly, they weren't competing with each other, they occupied two completely separate lanes, they had two completely separate roles to play on that project and they both played their respective roles with uncanny ability. That album contains the sharpest collection of Nas verses since probably The Lost Tapes. Listen to his verses on "Strong Will Continue" especially the close out verse, that was the hardest verse i heard in all of 2010. Listen to his verses on "Friends" that's some of the realest ? ever spoken. Listen to his verses on "Dispear": "The master the masses/one has power the other one lacks it/guns and powder controlled by assets/owned by financial forecasters/who are the masters? They are the gangsters they are the bankers the ones who tax us/the masses they are us the sheep the people divided in classes..." two of the most superbly, expertly crafted verses I've ever heard. Listen to his verse and flow on "My Generation": "Can you blame my generation/subject to gentrification/depicting they frustrations over ill instrumentation/cuz music is the way to convey to you what I'm facing/placing my life in front of your eye for your observation/and if you can't relate then maybe you are too complacent/athletes today are scared to make Muhammed Ali statements/what's up with tomorrow/will you lead will you follow/improve your values education is real power...". Both of them ? beasted through all 13 tracks.
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Whether or not anyone likes Jay -Z's latest album, single, etc. the fact remains he's had a long remarkable career. His albums sell and his tours have all been a success. He's put himself in a position where people who aren't seriously into rap know who he is. That's all great and I respect that but as a fan "falling off" has always been about not making good music. Even Jay himself has said Kingdom Come wasn't his best effort. I personally don't think The Gift and the Curse was a horrible disaster. Fact is there are a lot of people who do.
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I've always thought Street's Disciple and Hip Hop Is Dead were his weakest efforts after Nastradamus but they're not wack they do sound uninspired at times. That's what hurts them but neither one of them, in my eyes, are even approaching the realm of wackness that The Blueprint 2 and Watch The Throne are in. Both of those records are unfathomably scatter brained, sloppy, messy and overall pointless. TBP2 has some great tracks but what hurts it is how out of pocket it is. A great album, like a great film, is supposed to set a tone, create a vibe and a strong atmosphere in order to suck you into its world. Albums like The Blueprint, ? 's Son, Late Registration, It's Dark & Hell Is Hot, The Slim Shady LP, Me Against The World, It Was Written, The Black Album, American Gangster, The Chronic 2001, Graduation and The Score are all prime examples of this. TBP2 and Watch The Throne are like the opposite. They're like examples of what not to do. They spend so much time switching and shifting tones that they never explore any one tone or vibe significantly. They're all over the place in a bad way. They sound unfocused. TBP2 is loud, obnoxious, clumsy and over the top for no reason. And WTT isn't much different. That ? is trash. It's like every song on the album either doesn't do enough or it does waaaaay too much.
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"No Church In The Wild" is an example of not doing enough. Songs should generally have structure. With rap songs, this is usually how it goes: 1st verse is supposed to be that intro verse, the verse that lets you wet your beak a little and brings you into the song but doesn't go all the way in. 2nd verse picks up where the 1st verse left off and takes it all the way, expanding on whatever the 1st verse did. Then the 3rd verse is supposed to be that close out verse, that nail in the coffin, that exclamation point, that verse that leaves nothing more to be desired from the song. "No Church In The Wild" starts off great, Jay delivers an excellent intro verse but what happens is Kanye comes in second and gives us another intro verse, one that's not even nearly as good as Jay's to begin with and then the song just ends. And real talk....real talk, "Lift Off" is quite possibly, in all seriousness, the worst song I've ever heard. It's a serious contender for that title. To me, that track sums up all the messiness and pointlessness of WTT in a nutshell. That ? 's so wack Jay wouldn't even rap on it. That ? said like 2 lines then called it quits. And what in the hell was that ? ass crooning Kanye calls a verse.
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"? In Paris" just some goofy ass ? . And maybe if that Bad Meets Evil EP hadn't dropped a couple months before WTT, I would have though more of those ABC rhymes on "Otis". The only track on there that's just flat out cold is "New Day" that ? is the truth. Everything else is either ? or a few levels above ? . TBP3 isn't wack it's just obvious and typical for the most part. It's safe. Almost no growth. You can tell he was trying too hard to fit in. At least with Street's Disciple, you could tell Nas didn't give a ? about making you happy it is boring at times and would have been a hell of a lot better had it been reduced to one disc but the strongest tracks on it ("A Message To The Feds", "These Are Our Heroes", "Disciple", "Suicide Bounce", "Remember The Times", "Getting Married", "Me & You", "Thief's Theme") are better than the highs from TBP2 & WTT.
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if yall makin usmarine a running joke as a jay stan you have to do the same for this Hero387 cat. otherwise you're picking favorites
Dude is like most of yall tryna excuse and justify Nas's commercial attempts as bascially not "really" being commercial for no real reason other than it's Nas. "he did it, but he aint really did, plus he aint do it that much esp compared to Jay"
Contrast that to the success argument which contradicts the whole premise
Nas is successfull but he aint "really successful" compared to Jay. You have to count both. If you wanna acknowledge Nas's success & record sales & ignore his commercial attempts & falilures you must count Jay-Z's without nitpicking & ? cop outs like "Kanye" & "Dumbing down" make your own argument
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Lyrically nasir never fell off but his albums be wacc as fucc.
Jigga dropped that bp3 trash then he streetsweeped wtt.When that 12th Lp drops then I can tell you cuz that verse he had on 3 kings was :-& -
Tommy bilfiger wrote: »Jigga dropped that bp3 trash then he streetsweeped wtt.When that 12th Lp drops then I can tell you cuz that verse he had on 3 kings was :-&
LOL . . At least we can agree on a premise -
Out of all jay-z albums it took me a good two months to cop BP3 because it just didnt have any appeal to me. I have every single last one of his albums. Dont know which one was his worst BP3, Kingdom Come or In My Lifetime. Even with those they are still enjoyable to a degree. Funny how most of Jay worst albums are better than most artist best albums.
Betcha when Jay-z next album drop, there is going to be a subliminal diss against lil wayne, Game, and 50 cent. He is known for thrown jabs when you least expect it. -
2ndly
If we justify Nas's commercial records we cant then go and make blanket statements about Jay's. ? tryna say "oh yea well Nas was rapping about africa on this song & lawyers on this one so it doesnt count"
Cut the ? or do the same for Jay..
Nas used Trackmasters, Timbaland, Swizz Beatz, Made videos with Hype Williams; "Stunted"w/large furs, cars & jewelry; Did songs with Diddy & Wayne; Nicki & Tyga, Used "r&b singers on the hook" (word to Shadyteam) Did a song with Chris Brown in 2008 & Keri Hilson; R.Kelly in 96 & 98-99; will.i.am in 2006; Miguel & Rick Ross in 2012- thats commercial
It dont matter how long Nas "played the game" The fact is he did. Accept it and lets move the ? on
This ? is weak. Nas made blatant commercial pop records. Nas "played the game" . So did Jay. Jay by your logic, sound logic & by results- Played it bigger & better. Either you discredit Nas the way you try to discredit Jay & sweep ? under the rug or we give both their propers. i suggest the latter
NEITHER OF THESE ? FELL OFF. GET THIS THREAD BACK ON TRACK. -
The hypocrites don't want to listen Almighty Breeze, that's my only issue with Nas fans. They ? on people for what he does on the regular and act like Nas is holier than now. Same Nas diriving around in Roles Royce in his videos and talking about icing out his sneakers. smh
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Out of all jay-z albums it took me a good two months to cop BP3 because it just didnt have any appeal to me. I have every single last one of his albums. Dont know which one was his worst BP3, Kingdom Come or In My Lifetime. Even with those they are still enjoyable to a degree. Funny how most of Jay worst albums are better than most artist best albums.
Betcha when Jay-z next album drop, there is going to be a subliminal diss against lil wayne, Game, and 50 cent. He is known for thrown jabs when you least expect it.
WHOA
Hol up Vol 1? That album raw as fucc.I agree wit everything else u said
