"I Fear I May Have Integrated My People Into a Burning House" - Martin Luther King Jr.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »But that's on us, not integration. Asians didn't let integration stop them from building self sufficient communities.
Asians have a unifying culture and language that naturally separate them from the other races in america. blacks are weaker and easy to pull apart, with integration African American identity is diluted . what are you and how do you differentiate yourself from the rest of America
Asians have quite a few cultures and many of them don't don't get along with others. One of the main things is they kept there populations highly concentrated within that subculture. They also were here less time and didn't have to integrate as much. I come from one of the last black towns. It was one of the segregated areas where blacks could go to the beach. It didn't go down until ? and other self inflicted ills took over.
I mean within each culture. people like to blame drugs for the destruction of the black community. But all people were involved in drugs during that era, there communities were not completely destroyed, yours was why do you think that is? -
My community still exist but it is a shell of itself. Part of it was not being able to upgrade without bringing in whites so the community continued to spiral. The largest dealer was on town council so our police force hands were tied. Other leaders were on drugs just corruption as a whole. The Feds ended up coming and shutting much of the dealing down but that was 99. It ended up being so many front businesses many closed. It was lots of things but mainly drugs violence & corruption.
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NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »@white715
I hear what you're saying. But I don't understand why the agenda would be for we the people to become the firemen and put out a fire to a house/system that is designed to exploit and destroy us/the people. And to be outside of the house, realize it's on fire, and continue to walk in, while leading others into that very house makes no sense to me.
Why would MLK say "I've come across something that deeply disturbs me"... if he believed he was still doing the right thing. He had a moment of clarity and realized that we were about to get everything he had been fighting so passionately for, only to become the very thing (mentally) he was fighting against. If you want to be a guest in anyone's house, you must play their game or become like those who live in the house.
I like the idea of The Poor Peoples Campaign for economic justice. I support all forms of true justice. But justice will NEVER be executed through asking (your oppressors of all people), or marching. True justice requires revolution. Houses (systems) need to be allowed to be completely burned down. Foundations (mentalities) need to be uprooted. New foundations need to be laid. And new and better homes need to be built.
THE HOUSE!
THE HOUSE!
THE HOUSE IS ON FIRE!!!...
The only other options would've been to go back to Africa or continuing on with Jim Crow.
And SMH at people blaming integration for the current state of Black America, integration was supposed to be the 1st step, but after Martin died and the Panthers neutralized no one was left to futher the cause and gangs, jobs left the communities, and ? was pushed into the inner city.
But to blame integration is like a WR catching the ball running 5 yards then fumbling and blaming the snap.
Those weren't and aren't our only options...
We could've taken the Hati/Toussaint Lourveture approach and created our own house, if we weren't welcome in someone else's.
And please don't forget we are the forefathers of everything considered civilized. We could've done better than going back to a place we've never been or Jim Crow.
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seems like you're going to be part of the system if you're using it to address your problemsno working with the system is not integration , integration is becoming part of the system.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »But that's on us, not integration. Asians didn't let integration stop them from building self sufficient communities.
Asians have a unifying culture and language that naturally separate them from the other races in america. blacks are weaker and easy to pull apart, with integration African American identity is diluted . what are you and how do you differentiate yourself from the rest of America
I agree with your assessment. That said, you're not disproving my point. You're actually supporting it. People are blaming the black communities woes solely on integration. My point was that integration was only a problem because we let it be a problem. That said. I don't think African American identity is diluted at all. If anything it's the opposite. In America there is such a strong construct associated with what it supposedly means to be black that anyone who strays from that even a little bit has their "blackness" questioned. And therein lies the issue. Blacks spend too much time fighting each other. Sure integration may have led to a weakening of the unity that was there before, but something else is responsible for the rise of the internal turmoil.Asians never really integrated they largly still keep to themselves. blacks begged to be part of the American social order and lost them selves in it
This I don't agree with. There are plenty of Asians out there who will damn near sell their soul for White favor. Not only that, but if you go to areas with large Asian populations, like some places in Cali, they are as integrated as any other minority group. Yes, they preserve and maintain their own culture, but they also do things that are distinctly American.
I also can't agree that blacks have lost themselves in American Social order. You act as though the African American community no longer exists and has become just part of the greater American culture. That's not true at all. African Americans are still distinctly African Americans. As a black person, you can't go anywhere in America without being reminded you're a black person. Our community is still there. It's just plagued with internal strife that prevents it from moving forward. That combined with the still present white racist institution is why we are where we are.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »But that's on us, not integration. Asians didn't let integration stop them from building self sufficient communities.
Asians have a unifying culture and language that naturally separate them from the other races in america. blacks are weaker and easy to pull apart, with integration African American identity is diluted . what are you and how do you differentiate yourself from the rest of America
I agree with your assessment. That said, you're not disproving my point. You're actually supporting it. People are blaming the black communities woes solely on integration. My point was that integration was only a problem because we let it be a problem. That said. I don't think African American identity is diluted at all. If anything it's the opposite. In America there is such a strong construct associated with what it supposedly means to be black that anyone who strays from that even a little bit has their "blackness" questioned. And therein lies the issue. Blacks spend too much time fighting each other. Sure integration may have led to a weakening of the unity that was there before, but something else is responsible for the rise of the internal turmoil.Asians never really integrated they largly still keep to themselves. blacks begged to be part of the American social order and lost them selves in it
This I don't agree with. There are plenty of Asians out there who will damn near sell their soul for White favor. Not only that, but if you go to areas with large Asian populations, like some places in Cali, they are as integrated as any other minority group. Yes, they preserve and maintain their own culture, but they also do things that are distinctly American.
I also can't agree that blacks have lost themselves in American Social order. You act as though the African American community no longer exists and has become just part of the greater American culture. That's not true at all. African Americans are still distinctly African Americans. As a black person, you can't go anywhere in America without being reminded you're a black person. Our community is still there. It's just plagued with internal strife that prevents it from moving forward. That combined with the still present white racist institution is why we are where we are.
I never spoke to you in this discussion so it was never my intent to disprove your point I only wanted to prove mine. Sure asians will kiss white ass for money but like you said they still preserve their own culture and have their own enclaves were they control the economic activity there. therefore they can withstand certain pressures without turning on each other. why is there no epidemic of asian males murdering each other? they survived integration.
my point is that i don't think the average african american knows what culture his culture/identity is and too much of it has been defined by their reaction to white american racism, the black elite seem to still be caught up in the tactics of 1960's i.e marching and protesting and praying. As a result this community is particularly vulnerable. You blame this weakness on internal strife but
Why is there so much internal strife now and in the past there was much less? what major cultural change happened in america ? Integration happened. This is my theory: in the past black people in america had to stick together it was a way of survival. So places like black wall street and movements like the harlem renaissance could happen SURE there are still black population centers and black "hoods" but is there a sense of community there. No it's every man for his ? self. This selfish attitude was brought about by integration when blacks realized they no longer needed each other we decided that the white man's ice was cooler. -
No, you don't have to be part of america to get america to respect your rights. groups of different people can work together with out each group melding into each other. -
Asians ? Asians like everyone else. Its proximity murder. A higher % of our population went into the dope game that causes more friction. People were out for self before we just couldn't spend money certain places and everyone wants what they can't have. I wasn't that large of a blow because everyone didn't have money. The people at the top "moved on up". There were still workers there but not many producers. Their children could go to college and join the greater society. There were also middle class black communities escaping some of the crime in the city. There are lots of different things that lead to the decline of unity in the Black community.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »But that's on us, not integration. Asians didn't let integration stop them from building self sufficient communities.
Asians have a unifying culture and language that naturally separate them from the other races in america. blacks are weaker and easy to pull apart, with integration African American identity is diluted . what are you and how do you differentiate yourself from the rest of America
I agree with your assessment. That said, you're not disproving my point. You're actually supporting it. People are blaming the black communities woes solely on integration. My point was that integration was only a problem because we let it be a problem. That said. I don't think African American identity is diluted at all. If anything it's the opposite. In America there is such a strong construct associated with what it supposedly means to be black that anyone who strays from that even a little bit has their "blackness" questioned. And therein lies the issue. Blacks spend too much time fighting each other. Sure integration may have led to a weakening of the unity that was there before, but something else is responsible for the rise of the internal turmoil.Asians never really integrated they largly still keep to themselves. blacks begged to be part of the American social order and lost them selves in it
This I don't agree with. There are plenty of Asians out there who will damn near sell their soul for White favor. Not only that, but if you go to areas with large Asian populations, like some places in Cali, they are as integrated as any other minority group. Yes, they preserve and maintain their own culture, but they also do things that are distinctly American.
I also can't agree that blacks have lost themselves in American Social order. You act as though the African American community no longer exists and has become just part of the greater American culture. That's not true at all. African Americans are still distinctly African Americans. As a black person, you can't go anywhere in America without being reminded you're a black person. Our community is still there. It's just plagued with internal strife that prevents it from moving forward. That combined with the still present white racist institution is why we are where we are.
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of our people in modern day society define their "Blackness" based off BET, MTV, VH1, the local news and several other institutions (none of which owed by Blacks) that reinforce the stereotypes that we are ignorant, loud, obnoxious, gang banging, drug dealing, entertainers, and several other negative and inferior adjectives. Not based on our actual culture, traditions, and teachings before we were brought to this country. So yes if you don't fit into one of those stereotypical categories, then you're not "black enough", when those stereotypes were never our culture to begin with.
And the reason we can't go anywhere without being reminded that we're black is because nobody will let us. Every time you walk into a store, restaurant, bank, club/party, or are in the suburbs or get spotted by law enforcement, etc... You are reminded that you are black.
I'll submit to you that the main reason of our internal strife you speak of is because of the White racist institution you spoke of. -
yeah, but you're talking as if these aren't groups living side by side in the same countryNo, you don't have to be part of america to get america to respect your rights. groups of different people can work together with out each group melding into each other.
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living in the same nation does not mean you are "one" with that society. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »BlackGerald wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »But that's on us, not integration. Asians didn't let integration stop them from building self sufficient communities.
lol are you white
No, do I have to be white to acknowledge that other groups have maintained unity after integration? Other prominent blacks have done the same thing.
only white peopel say dumb ? like Asians having self sufficient communities as if all Asians are the same -
I never spoke to you in this discussion so it was never my intent to disprove your point I only wanted to prove mine. Sure asians will kiss white ass for money but like you said they still preserve their own culture and have their own enclaves were they control the economic activity there. therefore they can withstand certain pressures without turning on each other. why is there no epidemic of asian males murdering each other? they survived integration.
my point is that i don't think the average african american knows what culture his culture/identity is and too much of it has been defined by their reaction to white american racism, the black elite seem to still be caught up in the tactics of 1960's i.e marching and protesting and praying. As a result this community is particularly vulnerable. You blame this weakness on internal strife but
Why is there so much internal strife now and in the past there was much less? what major cultural change happened in america ? Integration happened. This is my theory: in the past black people in america had to stick together it was a way of survival. So places like black wall street and movements like the harlem renaissance could happen SURE there are still black population centers and black "hoods" but is there a sense of community there. No it's every man for his ? self. This selfish attitude was brought about by integration when blacks realized they no longer needed each other we decided that the white man's ice was cooler.
Ok I got you. Cosign all of that.NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of our people in modern day society define their "Blackness" based off BET, MTV, VH1, the local news and several other institutions (none of which owed by Blacks) that reinforce the stereotypes that we are ignorant, loud, obnoxious, gang banging, drug dealing, entertainers, and several other negative and inferior adjectives. Not based on our actual culture, traditions, and teachings before we were brought to this country. So yes if you don't fit into one of those stereotypical categories, then you're not "black enough", when those stereotypes were never our culture to begin with.
And the reason we can't go anywhere without being reminded that we're black is because nobody will let us. Every time you walk into a store, restaurant, bank, club/party, or are in the suburbs or get spotted by law enforcement, etc... You are reminded that you are black.
I'll submit to you that the main reason of our internal strife you speak of is because of the White racist institution you spoke of.
I agree with almost all of what you said. I don't think 100% of the blame is because of the White racist institution. I believe that is the foundation for all of our problems, but we deserve some accountability too. Why do those negative stereotypes fit? Because we so commonly see people that fit them. I ride public transportation. Not one day goes by without me seeing some loud obnoxious black person. I think that kind of mindstate has spread through the community and have wrongfully become associated with "blackness." Now we can blame the white controlled media for their promotion of that imagery, but we can't blame the media or any other part of the white race institution for individuals making the decision to carry themselves like that.
It's like what I always say about women crying about the misogyny in rap. They blame the rappers for the videos that debase women, but they never actually blame the women that take part in those videos. It's the same thing. It's fair for us to blame the media for misrepresenting us, but we should also blame the people that give them fuel for their fire.
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BlackGerald wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »BlackGerald wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »But that's on us, not integration. Asians didn't let integration stop them from building self sufficient communities.
lol are you white
No, do I have to be white to acknowledge that other groups have maintained unity after integration? Other prominent blacks have done the same thing.
only white peopel say dumb ? like Asians having self sufficient communities as if all Asians are the same
Nobody was suggesting we should be the same. I'm just pointing out that integration didn't have to destroy the unity in our community. If much smaller communities can get away without being dissolved, we could have too. Were our challenges the same as theirs? No. Did we receive a lot more backlash than them? Yes. That doesn't change the fact that had made different choices as a community, integration would only have helped us.
My point is that integration was never the problem people make it out to be. As I said before, the actual problem was that after we got integration, everyone thought we won the war and went off to ? and pillage. When in reality, integration should have just been the first step. From there we should have gone and built the community and used the resources that we won through integration to strengthen our infrastructure.
Someone used the Black Wallstreet example. We could have gone in that direction again. The only reason BW was destroyed was because as blacks they had no support or expectation of protection from the government. Say what you want about America today, one thing is for sure, that ? would not go down that way this in the present. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »I never spoke to you in this discussion so it was never my intent to disprove your point I only wanted to prove mine. Sure asians will kiss white ass for money but like you said they still preserve their own culture and have their own enclaves were they control the economic activity there. therefore they can withstand certain pressures without turning on each other. why is there no epidemic of asian males murdering each other? they survived integration.
my point is that i don't think the average african american knows what culture his culture/identity is and too much of it has been defined by their reaction to white american racism, the black elite seem to still be caught up in the tactics of 1960's i.e marching and protesting and praying. As a result this community is particularly vulnerable. You blame this weakness on internal strife but
Why is there so much internal strife now and in the past there was much less? what major cultural change happened in america ? Integration happened. This is my theory: in the past black people in america had to stick together it was a way of survival. So places like black wall street and movements like the harlem renaissance could happen SURE there are still black population centers and black "hoods" but is there a sense of community there. No it's every man for his ? self. This selfish attitude was brought about by integration when blacks realized they no longer needed each other we decided that the white man's ice was cooler.
Ok I got you. Cosign all of that.NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of our people in modern day society define their "Blackness" based off BET, MTV, VH1, the local news and several other institutions (none of which owed by Blacks) that reinforce the stereotypes that we are ignorant, loud, obnoxious, gang banging, drug dealing, entertainers, and several other negative and inferior adjectives. Not based on our actual culture, traditions, and teachings before we were brought to this country. So yes if you don't fit into one of those stereotypical categories, then you're not "black enough", when those stereotypes were never our culture to begin with.
And the reason we can't go anywhere without being reminded that we're black is because nobody will let us. Every time you walk into a store, restaurant, bank, club/party, or are in the suburbs or get spotted by law enforcement, etc... You are reminded that you are black.
I'll submit to you that the main reason of our internal strife you speak of is because of the White racist institution you spoke of.
I agree with almost all of what you said. I don't think 100% of the blame is because of the White racist institution. I believe that is the foundation for all of our problems, but we deserve some accountability too. Why do those negative stereotypes fit? Because we so commonly see people that fit them. I ride public transportation. Not one day goes by without me seeing some loud obnoxious black person. I think that kind of mindstate has spread through the community and have wrongfully become associated with "blackness." Now we can blame the white controlled media for their promotion of that imagery, but we can't blame the media or any other part of the white race institution for individuals making the decision to carry themselves like that.
It's like what I always say about women crying about the misogyny in rap. They blame the rappers for the videos that debase women, but they never actually blame the women that take part in those videos. It's the same thing. It's fair for us to blame the media for misrepresenting us, but we should also blame the people that give them fuel for their fire.
I get what you are saying but to put it in the simplest form I can explain it in would be this.
would you blame the devil for his promotion of evil, or do you blame those who have been tricked by the devil.
let's not jump to conclusions i'm not on some boogey man ? but you have to put things into their proper perspective.
so called black people are to blame for drinking the poison and believing what the media has told them about there own selves, but at the same time you can't say that all people of color subscribe to that train of thought even if they are a minority.. the problem is the machine and once you get people to recognize that there is a program that they have accepted about themselves then they themselves can began their journey towards knowledge of self. -
young_reezy wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I never spoke to you in this discussion so it was never my intent to disprove your point I only wanted to prove mine. Sure asians will kiss white ass for money but like you said they still preserve their own culture and have their own enclaves were they control the economic activity there. therefore they can withstand certain pressures without turning on each other. why is there no epidemic of asian males murdering each other? they survived integration.
my point is that i don't think the average african american knows what culture his culture/identity is and too much of it has been defined by their reaction to white american racism, the black elite seem to still be caught up in the tactics of 1960's i.e marching and protesting and praying. As a result this community is particularly vulnerable. You blame this weakness on internal strife but
Why is there so much internal strife now and in the past there was much less? what major cultural change happened in america ? Integration happened. This is my theory: in the past black people in america had to stick together it was a way of survival. So places like black wall street and movements like the harlem renaissance could happen SURE there are still black population centers and black "hoods" but is there a sense of community there. No it's every man for his ? self. This selfish attitude was brought about by integration when blacks realized they no longer needed each other we decided that the white man's ice was cooler.
Ok I got you. Cosign all of that.NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of our people in modern day society define their "Blackness" based off BET, MTV, VH1, the local news and several other institutions (none of which owed by Blacks) that reinforce the stereotypes that we are ignorant, loud, obnoxious, gang banging, drug dealing, entertainers, and several other negative and inferior adjectives. Not based on our actual culture, traditions, and teachings before we were brought to this country. So yes if you don't fit into one of those stereotypical categories, then you're not "black enough", when those stereotypes were never our culture to begin with.
And the reason we can't go anywhere without being reminded that we're black is because nobody will let us. Every time you walk into a store, restaurant, bank, club/party, or are in the suburbs or get spotted by law enforcement, etc... You are reminded that you are black.
I'll submit to you that the main reason of our internal strife you speak of is because of the White racist institution you spoke of.
I agree with almost all of what you said. I don't think 100% of the blame is because of the White racist institution. I believe that is the foundation for all of our problems, but we deserve some accountability too. Why do those negative stereotypes fit? Because we so commonly see people that fit them. I ride public transportation. Not one day goes by without me seeing some loud obnoxious black person. I think that kind of mindstate has spread through the community and have wrongfully become associated with "blackness." Now we can blame the white controlled media for their promotion of that imagery, but we can't blame the media or any other part of the white race institution for individuals making the decision to carry themselves like that.
It's like what I always say about women crying about the misogyny in rap. They blame the rappers for the videos that debase women, but they never actually blame the women that take part in those videos. It's the same thing. It's fair for us to blame the media for misrepresenting us, but we should also blame the people that give them fuel for their fire.
I get what you are saying but to put it in the simplest form I can explain it in would be this.
would you blame the devil for his promotion of evil, or do you blame those who have been tricked by the devil.
let's not jump to conclusions i'm not on some boogey man ? but you have to put things into their proper perspective.
so called black people are to blame for drinking the poison and believing what the media has told them about there own selves, but at the same time you can't say that all people of color subscribe to that train of thought even if they are a minority.. the problem is the machine and once you get people to recognize that there is a program that they have accepted about themselves then they themselves can began their journey towards knowledge of self.
I feel you. But it's a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" type of thing. We know the tricks, so why do we keep falling for them? At some point, we have to recognize that ? and rise above it. The same institution that flooded black and native communities with alcohol in a way to control and disrupt them, potentially did the same thing with ? . Did we as a people stand up and say "No, get that poison out of our neighborhoods." No, at least not until it had already done it's damage.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »young_reezy wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I never spoke to you in this discussion so it was never my intent to disprove your point I only wanted to prove mine. Sure asians will kiss white ass for money but like you said they still preserve their own culture and have their own enclaves were they control the economic activity there. therefore they can withstand certain pressures without turning on each other. why is there no epidemic of asian males murdering each other? they survived integration.
my point is that i don't think the average african american knows what culture his culture/identity is and too much of it has been defined by their reaction to white american racism, the black elite seem to still be caught up in the tactics of 1960's i.e marching and protesting and praying. As a result this community is particularly vulnerable. You blame this weakness on internal strife but
Why is there so much internal strife now and in the past there was much less? what major cultural change happened in america ? Integration happened. This is my theory: in the past black people in america had to stick together it was a way of survival. So places like black wall street and movements like the harlem renaissance could happen SURE there are still black population centers and black "hoods" but is there a sense of community there. No it's every man for his ? self. This selfish attitude was brought about by integration when blacks realized they no longer needed each other we decided that the white man's ice was cooler.
Ok I got you. Cosign all of that.NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of our people in modern day society define their "Blackness" based off BET, MTV, VH1, the local news and several other institutions (none of which owed by Blacks) that reinforce the stereotypes that we are ignorant, loud, obnoxious, gang banging, drug dealing, entertainers, and several other negative and inferior adjectives. Not based on our actual culture, traditions, and teachings before we were brought to this country. So yes if you don't fit into one of those stereotypical categories, then you're not "black enough", when those stereotypes were never our culture to begin with.
And the reason we can't go anywhere without being reminded that we're black is because nobody will let us. Every time you walk into a store, restaurant, bank, club/party, or are in the suburbs or get spotted by law enforcement, etc... You are reminded that you are black.
I'll submit to you that the main reason of our internal strife you speak of is because of the White racist institution you spoke of.
I agree with almost all of what you said. I don't think 100% of the blame is because of the White racist institution. I believe that is the foundation for all of our problems, but we deserve some accountability too. Why do those negative stereotypes fit? Because we so commonly see people that fit them. I ride public transportation. Not one day goes by without me seeing some loud obnoxious black person. I think that kind of mindstate has spread through the community and have wrongfully become associated with "blackness." Now we can blame the white controlled media for their promotion of that imagery, but we can't blame the media or any other part of the white race institution for individuals making the decision to carry themselves like that.
It's like what I always say about women crying about the misogyny in rap. They blame the rappers for the videos that debase women, but they never actually blame the women that take part in those videos. It's the same thing. It's fair for us to blame the media for misrepresenting us, but we should also blame the people that give them fuel for their fire.
I get what you are saying but to put it in the simplest form I can explain it in would be this.
would you blame the devil for his promotion of evil, or do you blame those who have been tricked by the devil.
let's not jump to conclusions i'm not on some boogey man ? but you have to put things into their proper perspective.
so called black people are to blame for drinking the poison and believing what the media has told them about there own selves, but at the same time you can't say that all people of color subscribe to that train of thought even if they are a minority.. the problem is the machine and once you get people to recognize that there is a program that they have accepted about themselves then they themselves can began their journey towards knowledge of self.
I feel you. But it's a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" type of thing. We know the tricks, so why do we keep falling for them? At some point, we have to recognize that ? and rise above it. The same institution that flooded black and native communities with alcohol in a way to control and disrupt them, potentially did the same thing with ? . Did we as a people stand up and say "No, get that poison out of our neighborhoods." No, at least not until it had already done it's damage.
that is true at some point we have to recognize what is going on and rise above it. I see the old saying you posted fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me - which is true... but I have another old saying since we are on that... "a fool is born everyday"...
a lot of the negative images and thoughts that so called black people adopt as their own are pushed on them at a young and impressionable age, a lot of times they see behavior from other family members or people in their own community in which they imitate and live out.. but these social stigmas don't just arise out the blue they are taught and over time they become the "norm" and a part of popular culture or just common knowledge, like they are suppose to behave in a certain manner..
there have been millions of dollars and man hours put into this program to create social order. you have to have some people at the bottom of the totem pole to have anyone at the top. just like you said we have to stop accepting these roles that are placed in front of us. both are to blame, the corporations that promote a veiled white supremacy that keep people of color in a ghettoized mind state are to blame as much as the ones who adopt this form of brainwashing... two sides of the same coin that do the same job. -
young_reezy wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »young_reezy wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I never spoke to you in this discussion so it was never my intent to disprove your point I only wanted to prove mine. Sure asians will kiss white ass for money but like you said they still preserve their own culture and have their own enclaves were they control the economic activity there. therefore they can withstand certain pressures without turning on each other. why is there no epidemic of asian males murdering each other? they survived integration.
my point is that i don't think the average african american knows what culture his culture/identity is and too much of it has been defined by their reaction to white american racism, the black elite seem to still be caught up in the tactics of 1960's i.e marching and protesting and praying. As a result this community is particularly vulnerable. You blame this weakness on internal strife but
Why is there so much internal strife now and in the past there was much less? what major cultural change happened in america ? Integration happened. This is my theory: in the past black people in america had to stick together it was a way of survival. So places like black wall street and movements like the harlem renaissance could happen SURE there are still black population centers and black "hoods" but is there a sense of community there. No it's every man for his ? self. This selfish attitude was brought about by integration when blacks realized they no longer needed each other we decided that the white man's ice was cooler.
Ok I got you. Cosign all of that.NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »
Please keep in mind that the vast majority of our people in modern day society define their "Blackness" based off BET, MTV, VH1, the local news and several other institutions (none of which owed by Blacks) that reinforce the stereotypes that we are ignorant, loud, obnoxious, gang banging, drug dealing, entertainers, and several other negative and inferior adjectives. Not based on our actual culture, traditions, and teachings before we were brought to this country. So yes if you don't fit into one of those stereotypical categories, then you're not "black enough", when those stereotypes were never our culture to begin with.
And the reason we can't go anywhere without being reminded that we're black is because nobody will let us. Every time you walk into a store, restaurant, bank, club/party, or are in the suburbs or get spotted by law enforcement, etc... You are reminded that you are black.
I'll submit to you that the main reason of our internal strife you speak of is because of the White racist institution you spoke of.
I agree with almost all of what you said. I don't think 100% of the blame is because of the White racist institution. I believe that is the foundation for all of our problems, but we deserve some accountability too. Why do those negative stereotypes fit? Because we so commonly see people that fit them. I ride public transportation. Not one day goes by without me seeing some loud obnoxious black person. I think that kind of mindstate has spread through the community and have wrongfully become associated with "blackness." Now we can blame the white controlled media for their promotion of that imagery, but we can't blame the media or any other part of the white race institution for individuals making the decision to carry themselves like that.
It's like what I always say about women crying about the misogyny in rap. They blame the rappers for the videos that debase women, but they never actually blame the women that take part in those videos. It's the same thing. It's fair for us to blame the media for misrepresenting us, but we should also blame the people that give them fuel for their fire.
I get what you are saying but to put it in the simplest form I can explain it in would be this.
would you blame the devil for his promotion of evil, or do you blame those who have been tricked by the devil.
let's not jump to conclusions i'm not on some boogey man ? but you have to put things into their proper perspective.
so called black people are to blame for drinking the poison and believing what the media has told them about there own selves, but at the same time you can't say that all people of color subscribe to that train of thought even if they are a minority.. the problem is the machine and once you get people to recognize that there is a program that they have accepted about themselves then they themselves can began their journey towards knowledge of self.
I feel you. But it's a "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me" type of thing. We know the tricks, so why do we keep falling for them? At some point, we have to recognize that ? and rise above it. The same institution that flooded black and native communities with alcohol in a way to control and disrupt them, potentially did the same thing with ? . Did we as a people stand up and say "No, get that poison out of our neighborhoods." No, at least not until it had already done it's damage.
that is true at some point we have to recognize what is going on and rise above it. I see the old saying you posted fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me - which is true... but I have another old saying since we are on that... "a fool is born everyday"...
a lot of the negative images and thoughts that so called black people adopt as their own are pushed on them at a young and impressionable age, a lot of times they see behavior from other family members or people in their own community in which they imitate and live out.. but these social stigmas don't just arise out the blue they are taught and over time they become the "norm" and a part of popular culture or just common knowledge, like they are suppose to behave in a certain manner..
there have been millions of dollars and man hours put into this program to create social order. you have to have some people at the bottom of the totem pole to have anyone at the top. just like you said we have to stop accepting these roles that are placed in front of us. both are to blame, the corporations that promote a veiled white supremacy that keep people of color in a ghettoized mind state are to blame as much as the ones who adopt this form of brainwashing... two sides of the same coin that do the same job.
I wouldn't argue against anything said, if not for the fact that you're minimizing what part we're playing in all of this. Again, the whites aren't using CGI or animatronic black people to promote these images. Real black people are doing real ignorant ? , and that is what is giving the white people the means to run their agenda. But anyway, we're in agreement mostly. I say both are to blame, us and them, but we don't have the power to change them. We do have the power to change us, and if we do that it will make it harder for them to try and push their agenda. For instance, if we stop slaughtering each other in the streets, they'll stop having the statistics they deceitfully use to try and make us look like savages. -
Me in 1991 age 17: decides to listen to the "I have a dream" speech in it's totality
Me: press play on vhs/vcr
Martin Luther King Jr. - "I have a dream that one day little black boys and girls will be holding hands with little white boys and girls."
Me: immediately turned off the recording and never look back after hearing this ? .
Me: Pulls out the scripture:
Jer 23:32 Behold,I am against them that prophesy false dreams, saith the LORD, and do tell them, and cause my people to err by their lies, and by their lightness; yet I sent them not, nor commanded them: therefore they shall not profit this people at all, saith the LORD.
R.I.P. Dr. King
I do benefit slightly from some of the work he put forward as an individual but as a black collective, we have become a disenfranchised people.
The term black community has now became a misnomer (we no longer operate as a commune but rather instead selfish individuals) thanks to the gatdamn jew leading Dr King to fully assimilate & integrate our dollar rotation/spending power into their communities.
Now they benefit more from out of our tax base even though we weren't getting a return (or at least a significant return) on the taxes our people paid.
We fell for the ? liberal lollygag becoming dependents rather than the people we were prior to integration (self reliant/non dependent on white folks and big government)
This is the result of the sacrifice our people made back then in effort to take a ? alongside white people. And from what I can see, our people still promote and are content with holding the hands of white boys and especially white girls. -
Let us be
dissatisfied until
rat-infested,
vermin-filled slums
will be a thing of a
dark past and
every family will
have a decent
sanitary house in
which to live. Let
us be dissatisfied
until the empty
stomachs of
Mississippi are
filled and the idle
industries of
Appalachia are
revitalized. . . . Let
us be dissatisfied
until our brothers
of the Third World
of Asia, Africa and
Latin America will
no longer be the
victims of
imperialist
exploitation, but
will be lifted from
the long night of
poverty, illiteracy
and disease
["Honoring Dr. Du
Bois," in
Freedomways, VIII,
s (Spring 1968), pp.
110-111].
That's the MLK I know, I don't know who some posters think they know...
MLK never said he was against black ownership or for black flight. Notice there is a difference between desegregation and integration. MLK died and his dream got co opted by people who had different visions. If Martin and Malcolm had lived I think the world as a whole would be in a better place.
And people advocating black nationalism and segregation can you name me one minority group who has been able to that successfully anywhere in the developed world? -
i think i put it a little further than "living in the same nation"living in the same nation does not mean you are "one" with that society.
-
Let us be
dissatisfied until
rat-infested,
vermin-filled slums
will be a thing of a
dark past and
every family will
have a decent
sanitary house in
which to live. Let
us be dissatisfied
until the empty
stomachs of
Mississippi are
filled and the idle
industries of
Appalachia are
revitalized. . . . Let
us be dissatisfied
until our brothers
of the Third World
of Asia, Africa and
Latin America will
no longer be the
victims of
imperialist
exploitation, but
will be lifted from
the long night of
poverty, illiteracy
and disease
["Honoring Dr. Du
Bois," in
Freedomways, VIII,
s (Spring 1968), pp.
110-111].
That's the MLK I know, I don't know who some posters think they know...
MLK never said he was against black ownership or for black flight. Notice there is a difference between desegregation and integration. MLK died and his dream got co opted by people who had different visions. If Martin and Malcolm had lived I think the world as a whole would be in a better place.
And people advocating black nationalism and segregation can you name me one minority group who has been able to that successfully anywhere in the developed world?
The jews and some asians are quasi-segregated they give off the appearence of integration but they are really not. but i do agree with you the integration we have now is not what we would have had if mlk did not die. -
what the ? is your point again? mal x did not want integration before or after mecca, after his trip he became ok with the idea of different people working together on certain issues but that is a far cry from wanting an integrated society. -
Dog, integration doesn't mean that you've thrown away your culture become lost in Americana. It just means you have all the rights and opportunities as allowed by the nation. You can be problack and down for you community and still thoroughly integrated into American society.
-
If you are interested in taking advantage of all the opportunities as allowed by the nation you must be blinded to the truth of America. You do not own any rights in America, they are free to take your rights as they want to and along with that goes some of your opportunities. So, you are definitely going to walk it the way they have things set up for you or your going to end up a outkast with fewer chances. So, yes if all you want to do is take advantage of all opportunities you will lose yourself in America culture and furthermore American systems and start to think that they work when they dont
