"I Fear I May Have Integrated My People Into a Burning House" - Martin Luther King Jr.
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@theloniousmonk
I know integration was meant to be more than just using white people amenities but at the end of the day that is all it amounted too. you never got to really tap those resources integration was supposed to let you tap. i took african america history in university i took enough of those classes i know alot of the history and ? using white economic infrastructure you had your own.
Jews live on another planet economically because they are the owners, we are the buyers they use america and keep the money for themselves. money comes into the black community and leaves as soon as it gets here. AA's may not think that they will be treated the same but you act like you will be, i say that because you rely on the government too much to fix your problems instead of fixing them yourselves.
I respect the people who fought in the civil rights movement never once have i disrespected them but what they did was was not enough and the generation after them believed too much in america. How am i using america? i got my education and started my own business made enough money so now i can chill and talk to you on this computer all day if i want too.
You make alot of leaps of logic and read things into my responses that i never intended, yeah ? is better now but only superficially. So now blacks can give white people their money and now mass lynching are uncommon. You just admitted that integration was derailed so why do you keep arguing with me? it failed to produce what it should have. How are blacks going to do the things you suggested, if since as individuals thanks to integration, it is more profitable not to, You can make more money in a mass market than you can in a niche market and too many upper class blacks think white mans ice is colder so i don't see them doing what you suggested at all. IT COULD be possible if more blacks thought like me unfortuntly most of my AFRICAN AMERICAN brethren think like you.
AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU GAVE UP MORE THAN YOU GAINED
I can't understand your stance. You've got dudes making 10s of millions of dollars off of sports now when they weren't even allowed to play those games before and then not allowed to be paid more or treated better than their white counterparts when they were.
You've got Oprah, a black woman, as one of the richest people in the country.
You've got blacks in high level government positions at every level when not too long ago, those positions were completely off limits for us.
You've got tons of blacks going to high level big named schools getting expertise and opportunities that were completely denied them.
You've got blacks regularly getting high level employment opportunities when most of those jobs were reserved for white males at one time.
You've got blacks being accepted for grants and other financial assistance to open their own business and start their own ventures, when before they could never have hoped to have been accepted for those things.
You've got a relatively strong black middle class, when before that was pretty much unheard of.
Blacks also don't have to worry about things like EMS services being denied them because priority is given to whites.
And even in the case of the justice system, it's much better than it was. Sure, a black man might have a hard time catching a fair break now, but it wasn't so long ago when that was all but impossible.
This idea that we haven't gained a lot as a result of the Civil Rights movement is ridiculous. And we are still gaining. I myself am working in a position and making a wage that would have been impossible a couple generations ago. Hell, by grandfather was one step away from slavery, so this idea of yours that we gave up a lot and received next to nothing is unbelievable nonsensical.
And yes, you are disrespecting the people who fought for civil rights. When you debase their efforts by saying they "begged" or "kissed ass," you're insulting them. And no, I agree with you, what they did was not enough. As I've said before, it was never suppose to be "The End." Somewhere along the line, we just dropped the ball and failed to take what they earned and advance it to the next level. That's on us later generations though, not them. And it's ? up for you to keep blaming them for the ? actions of more modern members of the community.
And congrats on your success in America, but as I pointed out, there is a good chance you may have never even been able to do that without their accomplishments. So why ? on those accomplishments? And what difference does it make where people make their money? That doesn't stifle the community. I can be a big time carpenter, and do most of my work for rich white people, if I then bring my money back and spend at black business, invest in black ventures, and donate to black charities I'll be doing my part to help build up the black community. Lots of well off blacks do those types of things, so what are you talking about? Honestly, it's becoming clear you're just running off at the mouth (or fingers as is the case). You're making all these wild and faulty accusations and assumptions. For instance, how do I think? You keep on slinging around this nonsense that AA's trust the government and the country and think we can get a fair shake. I don't think that, and I don't know anyone that does think like that. I do know for a fact that black life was better for my parents than it was for my grandparents. I know it was better for me than for my parents. I also believe it will be better for my daughter than it was for me. That's called progress. Everything out there points towards that progress being stead, slow, but still steady. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »@theloniousmonk
I know integration was meant to be more than just using white people amenities but at the end of the day that is all it amounted too. you never got to really tap those resources integration was supposed to let you tap. i took african america history in university i took enough of those classes i know alot of the history and ? using white economic infrastructure you had your own.
Jews live on another planet economically because they are the owners, we are the buyers they use america and keep the money for themselves. money comes into the black community and leaves as soon as it gets here. AA's may not think that they will be treated the same but you act like you will be, i say that because you rely on the government too much to fix your problems instead of fixing them yourselves.
I respect the people who fought in the civil rights movement never once have i disrespected them but what they did was was not enough and the generation after them believed too much in america. How am i using america? i got my education and started my own business made enough money so now i can chill and talk to you on this computer all day if i want too.
You make alot of leaps of logic and read things into my responses that i never intended, yeah ? is better now but only superficially. So now blacks can give white people their money and now mass lynching are uncommon. You just admitted that integration was derailed so why do you keep arguing with me? it failed to produce what it should have. How are blacks going to do the things you suggested, if since as individuals thanks to integration, it is more profitable not to, You can make more money in a mass market than you can in a niche market and too many upper class blacks think white mans ice is colder so i don't see them doing what you suggested at all. IT COULD be possible if more blacks thought like me unfortuntly most of my AFRICAN AMERICAN brethren think like you.
AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU GAVE UP MORE THAN YOU GAINED
I can't understand your stance. You've got dudes making 10s of millions of dollars off of sports now when they weren't even allowed to play those games before and then not allowed to be paid more or treated better than their white counterparts when they were.
You've got Oprah, a black woman, as one of the richest people in the country.
You've got blacks in high level government positions at every level when not too long ago, those positions were completely off limits for us.
You've got tons of blacks going to high level big named schools getting expertise and opportunities that were completely denied them.
You've got blacks regularly getting high level employment opportunities when most of those jobs were reserved for white males at one time.
You've got blacks being accepted for grants and other financial assistance to open their own business and start their own ventures, when before they could never have hoped to have been accepted for those things.
You've got a relatively strong black middle class, when before that was pretty much unheard of.
Blacks also don't have to worry about things like EMS services being denied them because priority is given to whites.
And even in the case of the justice system, it's much better than it was. Sure, a black man might have a hard time catching a fair break now, but it wasn't so long ago when that was all but impossible.
This idea that we haven't gained a lot as a result of the Civil Rights movement is ridiculous. And we are still gaining. I myself am working in a position and making a wage that would have been impossible a couple generations ago. Hell, by grandfather was one step away from slavery, so this idea of yours that we gave up a lot and received next to nothing is unbelievable nonsensical.
And yes, you are disrespecting the people who fought for civil rights. When you debase their efforts by saying they "begged" or "kissed ass," you're insulting them. And no, I agree with you, what they did was not enough. As I've said before, it was never suppose to be "The End." Somewhere along the line, we just dropped the ball and failed to take what they earned and advance it to the next level. That's on us later generations though, not them. And it's ? up for you to keep blaming them for the ? actions of more modern members of the community.
And congrats on your success in America, but as I pointed out, there is a good chance you may have never even been able to do that without their accomplishments. So why ? on those accomplishments? And what difference does it make where people make their money? That doesn't stifle the community. I can be a big time carpenter, and do most of my work for rich white people, if I then bring my money back and spend at black business, invest in black ventures, and donate to black charities I'll be doing my part to help build up the black community. Lots of well off blacks do those types of things, so what are you talking about? Honestly, it's becoming clear you're just running off at the mouth (or fingers as is the case). You're making all these wild and faulty accusations and assumptions. For instance, how do I think? You keep on slinging around this nonsense that AA's trust the government and the country and think we can get a fair shake. I don't think that, and I don't know anyone that does think like that. I do know for a fact that black life was better for my parents than it was for my grandparents. I know it was better for me than for my parents. I also believe it will be better for my daughter than it was for me. That's called progress. Everything out there points towards that progress being stead, slow, but still steady.
I am not impressed by a few rich black people as long as the community is poor we are all poor. Chris rock said that if bill gates woke up with oprah moeny he would shoot himself. blacks own less than 5 % of all firms in america. make up half the jail population. BLACKS ARE DOING BETTER now because we are not being spit on but we are underacheiving like a ? .
We get pennies black should be doing much better and we would had integration not screwed our minds now agree there had to be changes in the system. there were positives with integretion but they came with alot of negatives and the negative outnumber the positives. @ the bolded you don't bring your money back into the community, because it often does not make economical sense. if you did bring the money to the community then the black dollar would circulate among black people. This is part of what i am saying what people think is going on and the reality do not match. If you did not trust the government you would take care of the community you come from and there would not be families that spent whole generations in housing projects and on welfare. as for the civil rights generation they did the best they could but i think the long term outcome was not as good as they thought it would have been.
You are deluded and not looking at reality most blacks are not in your situation. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »@theloniousmonk
I know integration was meant to be more than just using white people amenities but at the end of the day that is all it amounted too. you never got to really tap those resources integration was supposed to let you tap. i took african america history in university i took enough of those classes i know alot of the history and ? using white economic infrastructure you had your own.
Jews live on another planet economically because they are the owners, we are the buyers they use america and keep the money for themselves. money comes into the black community and leaves as soon as it gets here. AA's may not think that they will be treated the same but you act like you will be, i say that because you rely on the government too much to fix your problems instead of fixing them yourselves.
I respect the people who fought in the civil rights movement never once have i disrespected them but what they did was was not enough and the generation after them believed too much in america. How am i using america? i got my education and started my own business made enough money so now i can chill and talk to you on this computer all day if i want too.
You make alot of leaps of logic and read things into my responses that i never intended, yeah ? is better now but only superficially. So now blacks can give white people their money and now mass lynching are uncommon. You just admitted that integration was derailed so why do you keep arguing with me? it failed to produce what it should have. How are blacks going to do the things you suggested, if since as individuals thanks to integration, it is more profitable not to, You can make more money in a mass market than you can in a niche market and too many upper class blacks think white mans ice is colder so i don't see them doing what you suggested at all. IT COULD be possible if more blacks thought like me unfortuntly most of my AFRICAN AMERICAN brethren think like you.
AT THE END OF THE DAY YOU GAVE UP MORE THAN YOU GAINED
I can't understand your stance. You've got dudes making 10s of millions of dollars off of sports now when they weren't even allowed to play those games before and then not allowed to be paid more or treated better than their white counterparts when they were.
You've got Oprah, a black woman, as one of the richest people in the country.
You've got blacks in high level government positions at every level when not too long ago, those positions were completely off limits for us.
You've got tons of blacks going to high level big named schools getting expertise and opportunities that were completely denied them.
You've got blacks regularly getting high level employment opportunities when most of those jobs were reserved for white males at one time.
You've got blacks being accepted for grants and other financial assistance to open their own business and start their own ventures, when before they could never have hoped to have been accepted for those things.
You've got a relatively strong black middle class, when before that was pretty much unheard of.
Blacks also don't have to worry about things like EMS services being denied them because priority is given to whites.
And even in the case of the justice system, it's much better than it was. Sure, a black man might have a hard time catching a fair break now, but it wasn't so long ago when that was all but impossible.
This idea that we haven't gained a lot as a result of the Civil Rights movement is ridiculous. And we are still gaining. I myself am working in a position and making a wage that would have been impossible a couple generations ago. Hell, by grandfather was one step away from slavery, so this idea of yours that we gave up a lot and received next to nothing is unbelievable nonsensical.
And yes, you are disrespecting the people who fought for civil rights. When you debase their efforts by saying they "begged" or "kissed ass," you're insulting them. And no, I agree with you, what they did was not enough. As I've said before, it was never suppose to be "The End." Somewhere along the line, we just dropped the ball and failed to take what they earned and advance it to the next level. That's on us later generations though, not them. And it's ? up for you to keep blaming them for the ? actions of more modern members of the community.
And congrats on your success in America, but as I pointed out, there is a good chance you may have never even been able to do that without their accomplishments. So why ? on those accomplishments? And what difference does it make where people make their money? That doesn't stifle the community. I can be a big time carpenter, and do most of my work for rich white people, if I then bring my money back and spend at black business, invest in black ventures, and donate to black charities I'll be doing my part to help build up the black community. Lots of well off blacks do those types of things, so what are you talking about? Honestly, it's becoming clear you're just running off at the mouth (or fingers as is the case). You're making all these wild and faulty accusations and assumptions. For instance, how do I think? You keep on slinging around this nonsense that AA's trust the government and the country and think we can get a fair shake. I don't think that, and I don't know anyone that does think like that. I do know for a fact that black life was better for my parents than it was for my grandparents. I know it was better for me than for my parents. I also believe it will be better for my daughter than it was for me. That's called progress. Everything out there points towards that progress being stead, slow, but still steady.
I am not impressed by a few rich black people as long as the community is poor we are all poor. Chris rock said that if bill gates woke up with oprah moeny he would shoot himself. blacks own less than 5 % of all firms in america. make up half the jail population. BLACKS ARE DOING BETTER now because we are not being spit but we are underacheiving like a ? .
We get pennies black should be doing much better and we would had integration not screwed our minds now agree there had to be changes in the system. there were positives with integretion but they came with alot of negatives and the negative outnumber the positives. @ the bolded you don't bring your money back into the community, because it often does not make economical sense. if you did bring the money to the community then the black dollar would circulate among black people. This is part of what i am saying what people think is going on and the reality do not match. If you did not trust the government you would take care of the community you come from and there would not be families that spent whole generations in housing projects and on welfare. as for the civil rights generation they did the best they could but i think the long term outcome was not as good as they thought it would have been.
You are deluded and not looking at reality most blacks are not in your situation.
If Oprah woke up with Chris Rock money she would do the same & he lives nice.
I don't expect you to say anything. I have my own thoughts and you have yours. I'm from a strong Black community and saw the division come in and it wasn't from outside races. I agree that in America that we should be doing better but our current position is because people are lazy and don't take advantage of the opportunities provided. Like you stated before you came to use the system. Everyone doesn't have that drive but its not always the white mans conspiracy.
Blacks fighting in wars wasn't coonery. They were defending there homes and families especially in WWII. Again you can believe what you want if it works for you.
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@saywhat
LOL LOL LOL
You are funny. i never said anything about it being the whites fault i blame integration before integration blacks had hotels ,theaters, banks and much more. you gave that up for what?? now you have next to nothing compared to everyone else.
everything that happened to the black community in america was natural result of post integration economic forces. There were drugs in the black community before integration but they did not destroy THE COMMUNITY.
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Who did we integrate with? I never said anything about drugs. it was more regular corruption. Drugs never destroyed a community its the violence that surrounds it. No one wants to go to an unsafe place. it pushes the customers out. I come from a place that was self sufficient as late as 2000. That is when I left. The constant violence surrounding the area hurt the business owners the most. Currently it is not as strong as it was but its there. Majority of the top 1% was white before integration and it is the same now. Some of it was integration but that also comes with a free enterprise system. Preintegration there was a lot of dirt poor and there are some now but there is more opportunity.
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Who did we integrate with? Drugs never destroyed a community its the violence that surrounds it. No one wants to go to an unsafe place. it pushes the customers out. I come from a place that was self sufficient as late as 2000. That is when I left. The constant violence surrounding the area hurt the business owners the most. Currently it is not as strong as it was but its there. Majority of the top 1% was white before integration and it is the same now. Some of it was integration but that also comes with a free enterprise system. Preintegration there was a lot of dirt poor and there are some now but there is more opportunity.
I don't think you can have illegal drugs without violence there is more opportunity, but to do what? work for white people and jews. what integration should have done is create more opportunity for black people to work for black people -
Before there wan't as much war between people. They didn't have RICO and whole crews wasn't falling leaving vacuums for people to fight over. Create something. If Bill Gates was Black he would still be rich. Don't blame dudes not working on that. I know plenty of Black people that provided a service and run their own business hiring Black men. Personally I don't care the race of my boss is as long as i'm paid well and respected. You want people to only buy from their race and it works to a degree but the market needs competition.
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still missing the point. but keep claiming Malcolm was no different than he was when he first became prominent in the NOI at the moment of his deathWHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?? moving away FROM the noi stance does not mean he wanted the kind of integration you are talking about.
i guessed you missed it, but my point earlier was that if THIS is your argument, you don't have one.are you white or black or something else.
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I am not impressed by a few rich black people as long as the community is poor we are all poor. Chris rock said that if bill gates woke up with oprah moeny he would shoot himself. blacks own less than 5 % of all firms in america. make up half the jail population. BLACKS ARE DOING BETTER now because we are not being spit on but we are underacheiving like a ? .
We get pennies black should be doing much better and we would had integration not screwed our minds now agree there had to be changes in the system. there were positives with integretion but they came with alot of negatives and the negative outnumber the positives. @ the bolded you don't bring your money back into the community, because it often does not make economical sense. if you did bring the money to the community then the black dollar would circulate among black people. This is part of what i am saying what people think is going on and the reality do not match. If you did not trust the government you would take care of the community you come from and there would not be families that spent whole generations in housing projects and on welfare. as for the civil rights generation they did the best they could but i think the long term outcome was not as good as they thought it would have been.
You are deluded and not looking at reality most blacks are not in your situation.
Yep, focus on the isolated rich people I mentioned and completely ignore the more general statements I made about our progress. That makes sense. And no I didn't say that most blacks are in my situation. I'm not complaining most blacks to where we were, and it's indisputable that blacks have improved with each generation.
And I agree that we are underachieving, but you're really exaggerating by claiming we're getting pennies. If you've got a good skill, talent, resume, etc... you can make a good and successful life for yourself. If you disagree with that, then you simply do not know what you're talking about. No on average we don't get paid the same for the same work as our white counterparts, but guess what fat people don't get treated the same as fit people. Ugly people don't get paid as much as attractive people. There are no shortage of unfair double standards in this country. Not all of them are racial. That doesn't change the fact that it's getting better for blacks slowly but surely, and only a blind person or someone who just flat out doesn't know what he's talking about would argue with that.
Once again. If you point is that we as blacks in America aren't where we could or should be, I completely agree. But that is not due to integration. That is due to a lack of foresight in the black community. -
MLK was tryin to change the economic structure in America he spoke out against the Military industrial complex, American imperialism, disproportionate distribution of wealth, etc.
So for anyone to make the argument that he was trying to integrate black people into the American economic system is just flat out wrong, and that person has no idea what they are talking about. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »I am not impressed by a few rich black people as long as the community is poor we are all poor. Chris rock said that if bill gates woke up with oprah moeny he would shoot himself. blacks own less than 5 % of all firms in america. make up half the jail population. BLACKS ARE DOING BETTER now because we are not being spit on but we are underacheiving like a ? .
We get pennies black should be doing much better and we would had integration not screwed our minds now agree there had to be changes in the system. there were positives with integretion but they came with alot of negatives and the negative outnumber the positives. @ the bolded you don't bring your money back into the community, because it often does not make economical sense. if you did bring the money to the community then the black dollar would circulate among black people. This is part of what i am saying what people think is going on and the reality do not match. If you did not trust the government you would take care of the community you come from and there would not be families that spent whole generations in housing projects and on welfare. as for the civil rights generation they did the best they could but i think the long term outcome was not as good as they thought it would have been.
You are deluded and not looking at reality most blacks are not in your situation.
Yep, focus on the isolated rich people I mentioned and completely ignore the more general statements I made about our progress. That makes sense. And no I didn't say that most blacks are in my situation. I'm not complaining most blacks to where we were, and it's indisputable that blacks have improved with each generation.
And I agree that we are underachieving, but you're really exaggerating by claiming we're getting pennies. If you've got a good skill, talent, resume, etc... you can make a good and successful life for yourself. If you disagree with that, then you simply do not know what you're talking about. No on average we don't get paid the same for the same work as our white counterparts, but guess what fat people don't get treated the same as fit people. Ugly people don't get paid as much as attractive people. There are no shortage of unfair double standards in this country. Not all of them are racial. That doesn't change the fact that it's getting better for blacks slowly but surely, and only a blind person or someone who just flat out doesn't know what he's talking about would argue with that.
Once again. If you point is that we as blacks in America aren't where we could or should be, I completely agree. But that is not due to integration. That is due to a lack of foresight in the black community.
YEAH, we are getting pennies too many of us work for people we don't work for ourselves we don't generate enough of our own wealth and that is due to integration and it is only getting better superficially. have we really improved with each generation?? seeing as how we own less and control less i would say no. Not being lynced and spit on is progress but they still ? on us they just do it in other ways. I ignored the general statements because they are faulty. The average white family is six times as wealthy as the average black family and for every dollar we have they have two. http://www.urban.org/publications/904582.html
And a large portion of the black middle class is a results of government jobs, You are delusional or just don't know the situation black people in america are in. Our lives are only as stable as other people make them because we do not own or control anything. But you believe we are doing better
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still missing the point. but keep claiming Malcolm was no different than he was when he first became prominent in the NOI at the moment of his deathWHERE IS THE EVIDENCE?? moving away FROM the noi stance does not mean he wanted the kind of integration you are talking about.
i guessed you missed it, but my point earlier was that if THIS is your argument, you don't have one.are you white or black or something else.
Me asking you your race has nothing to do with my argument i simply want to know
I never claimed his stance stayed the same, now you just running your mouth to be running your mouth, him not wanting integration is fact as shown by the video. He did not believe social integration would work but after mecca he was willing to work with other people on movement integration. NOI STANCE WAS NO INTEGRATION AT ALL IN ANYTHING.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdSXtnBqPBA -
wow, just going to straight-up lie like that?Me asking you your race has nothing to do with my argument
so again, after Mecca (and really, before that), he moves from the NOI stance (NO INTEGRATION AT ALL IN ANYTHING) to working on movement integration. you know, side by side with non-blacks for causes and the like. i don't know WHERE we got the idea that he was moving in the direction of integration and not the opposite.He did not believe social integration would work but after mecca he was willing to work with other people on movement integration. NOI STANCE WAS NO INTEGRATION AT ALL IN ANYTHING.
or why you're ignoring the fact that, as i said, "you and i both don't know where Malcolm was headed because someone ? KILLED him, but he was clearly moving in a direction away from the NOI's stance on racial integration and getting involved in social issues. this, quite frankly, makes it more likely he was headed toward integration of whatever sort"
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »I am not impressed by a few rich black people as long as the community is poor we are all poor. Chris rock said that if bill gates woke up with oprah moeny he would shoot himself. blacks own less than 5 % of all firms in america. make up half the jail population. BLACKS ARE DOING BETTER now because we are not being spit on but we are underacheiving like a ? .
We get pennies black should be doing much better and we would had integration not screwed our minds now agree there had to be changes in the system. there were positives with integretion but they came with alot of negatives and the negative outnumber the positives. @ the bolded you don't bring your money back into the community, because it often does not make economical sense. if you did bring the money to the community then the black dollar would circulate among black people. This is part of what i am saying what people think is going on and the reality do not match. If you did not trust the government you would take care of the community you come from and there would not be families that spent whole generations in housing projects and on welfare. as for the civil rights generation they did the best they could but i think the long term outcome was not as good as they thought it would have been.
You are deluded and not looking at reality most blacks are not in your situation.
Yep, focus on the isolated rich people I mentioned and completely ignore the more general statements I made about our progress. That makes sense. And no I didn't say that most blacks are in my situation. I'm not complaining most blacks to where we were, and it's indisputable that blacks have improved with each generation.
And I agree that we are underachieving, but you're really exaggerating by claiming we're getting pennies. If you've got a good skill, talent, resume, etc... you can make a good and successful life for yourself. If you disagree with that, then you simply do not know what you're talking about. No on average we don't get paid the same for the same work as our white counterparts, but guess what fat people don't get treated the same as fit people. Ugly people don't get paid as much as attractive people. There are no shortage of unfair double standards in this country. Not all of them are racial. That doesn't change the fact that it's getting better for blacks slowly but surely, and only a blind person or someone who just flat out doesn't know what he's talking about would argue with that.
Once again. If you point is that we as blacks in America aren't where we could or should be, I completely agree. But that is not due to integration. That is due to a lack of foresight in the black community.
YEAH, we are getting pennies too many of us work for people we don't work for ourselves we don't generate enough of our own wealth and that is due to integration and it is only getting better superficially. have we really improved with each generation?? seeing as how we own less and control less i would say no. Not being lynced and spit on is progress but they still ? on us they just do it in other ways. I ignored the general statements because they are faulty. The average white family is six times as wealthy as the average black family and for every dollar we have they have two. http://www.urban.org/publications/904582.html
And a large portion of the black middle class is a results of government jobs, You are delusional or just don't know the situation black people in america are in. Our lives are only as stable as other people make them because we do not own or control anything. But you believe we are doing better
Working for pennies and for other people can't be said for a lot of people, including a large amount of white people. While I agree that it would be nice to have more black owned businesses, not everyone is meant to own a business. And working for someone else does not = working for pennies. Lots of the richest people in this country are working for other people. Hell at my company, you got a lot of people who are rolling in dough, and they got the same boss that I got.
The average white family has hundreds of years of a head start on black people. Of course whites in general have it better. It's been less than a hundred years since we even earned the opportunity to compete on anything approaching a fair level.
And what difference does it make that the black middle class have government jobs. I don't even know that that's true to be honest, because there are a lot of black professionals out there in fields like nursing and engineering or making good money from technical trades like carpentry and automotive repair. And I'm not delusional. I know there are a lot of black people out there in the cold. I never said life was perfect for all black people. Life isn't even perfect for all white people. Still progress takes time, and all trends show that the black middle class is growing meaning that as I've said multiple times now, there is progress in the black community. You last couple of sentences are silly too, because even if you own your own business, you're only as stable as other people make you. You business lives and dies as much by your investors and your clientele as anything you do. There are a lot of people out there on the precipice of poverty and they own their own businesses. Or did you think that owning a business is somehow an automatic key to ultimate success.
But you know what, we can dead this, because it's you that are most definitely delusional. You're questioning the fact that Blacks are doing better in America than they were in the past. Anyone who would even go that far really doesn't have any reason discussing something like this because they have no idea what they are talking about. It's one thing to say that we could and should be doing better. I could agree with that, but to act like we haven't made progress even though 60 years ago a lot of black people couldn't even conceive of the ? that's commonplace now is ? .
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kingblaze84 wrote: »A great article I read online on the destructive effect integration has had on Blacks........here are just some snippets of it....integration has done more harm then good for Blacks.....
http://www.thinkaboutit-knowaboutit.com/2013/06/did-integration-hurt-black-america.html
Though the Civil Rights Act officially ended legal discrimination, black people continued to face inequality and they were still oppressed. Worse, the black community was fracturing as it rapidly changed from a tight-knit and self-sustaining community to a community that was increasingly coming to rely on white grace. Middle-class black business owners established their own communities, leaving their lower-class brothers and sisters behind. To this day, middle class black Americans and poor black Americans remain separated from each other.
Look at the current state of black America. It is no longer unified as it was under segregation. This is because segregation forced blacks to sink or swim, and they swam by establishing their own self-sustained community.
After segregation ended, black restaurants, theaters, insurance companies, banks, etc. disappeared, and hard economic times destroyed black neighborhoods that had previously flourished. An economic vacuum ensued and jobs were scarce. Coupled with the power vacuum that occurred when black civil rights leaders were killed and subsequent black power movements were destroyed, black America found itself in the midst of a lack of leadership, drugs, gang violence, extreme poverty, and desperation.
But hey, at least America was integrated.
Today, black people spend 95% of their money at white businesses. Black businesses are owned by white enterprises. Though there are some cities that contain black businesses and institutions (most notably Atlanta), millions of black people are still suffering under the conditions that led to the deterioration of black America.
Integration seemed promising, and it did indeed afford blacks many basic human rights. But integration was a promise that failed. It failed to end racism, it failed to end discrimination, and it failed to uplift the black community as a whole. And to this day, blacks and whites still segregate themselves from each other anyway.
So forced segregation against your own will is the solution? It must come out of understanding and love out of your own people. Let black folk make their own choice, especially in the globalized 21st century.
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wow, just going to straight-up lie like that?Me asking you your race has nothing to do with my argument
so again, after Mecca (and really, before that), he moves from the NOI stance (NO INTEGRATION AT ALL IN ANYTHING) to working on movement integration. you know, side by side with non-blacks for causes and the like. i don't know WHERE we got the idea that he was moving in the direction of integration and not the opposite.He did not believe social integration would work but after mecca he was willing to work with other people on movement integration. NOI STANCE WAS NO INTEGRATION AT ALL IN ANYTHING.
or why you're ignoring the fact that, as i said, "you and i both don't know where Malcolm was headed because someone ? KILLED him, but he was clearly moving in a direction away from the NOI's stance on racial integration and getting involved in social issues. this, quite frankly, makes it more likely he was headed toward integration of whatever sort"
There is no lie, i just want to know your race so can you answer the ? question if i remember correctly i asked you your race in another thread a long time ago and you never answered.
and did you not watch the second video the man said he would work with other organizations he did not say anything about blacks and white living in a fully integrated society. You have put no proof to your position you just believe in your stance. Unless you can bring some written or video proof to support your position i am not going to argue with you about this anymore. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »I am not impressed by a few rich black people as long as the community is poor we are all poor. Chris rock said that if bill gates woke up with oprah moeny he would shoot himself. blacks own less than 5 % of all firms in america. make up half the jail population. BLACKS ARE DOING BETTER now because we are not being spit on but we are underacheiving like a ? .
We get pennies black should be doing much better and we would had integration not screwed our minds now agree there had to be changes in the system. there were positives with integretion but they came with alot of negatives and the negative outnumber the positives. @ the bolded you don't bring your money back into the community, because it often does not make economical sense. if you did bring the money to the community then the black dollar would circulate among black people. This is part of what i am saying what people think is going on and the reality do not match. If you did not trust the government you would take care of the community you come from and there would not be families that spent whole generations in housing projects and on welfare. as for the civil rights generation they did the best they could but i think the long term outcome was not as good as they thought it would have been.
You are deluded and not looking at reality most blacks are not in your situation.
Yep, focus on the isolated rich people I mentioned and completely ignore the more general statements I made about our progress. That makes sense. And no I didn't say that most blacks are in my situation. I'm not complaining most blacks to where we were, and it's indisputable that blacks have improved with each generation.
And I agree that we are underachieving, but you're really exaggerating by claiming we're getting pennies. If you've got a good skill, talent, resume, etc... you can make a good and successful life for yourself. If you disagree with that, then you simply do not know what you're talking about. No on average we don't get paid the same for the same work as our white counterparts, but guess what fat people don't get treated the same as fit people. Ugly people don't get paid as much as attractive people. There are no shortage of unfair double standards in this country. Not all of them are racial. That doesn't change the fact that it's getting better for blacks slowly but surely, and only a blind person or someone who just flat out doesn't know what he's talking about would argue with that.
Once again. If you point is that we as blacks in America aren't where we could or should be, I completely agree. But that is not due to integration. That is due to a lack of foresight in the black community.
YEAH, we are getting pennies too many of us work for people we don't work for ourselves we don't generate enough of our own wealth and that is due to integration and it is only getting better superficially. have we really improved with each generation?? seeing as how we own less and control less i would say no. Not being lynced and spit on is progress but they still ? on us they just do it in other ways. I ignored the general statements because they are faulty. The average white family is six times as wealthy as the average black family and for every dollar we have they have two. http://www.urban.org/publications/904582.html
And a large portion of the black middle class is a results of government jobs, You are delusional or just don't know the situation black people in america are in. Our lives are only as stable as other people make them because we do not own or control anything. But you believe we are doing better
Working for pennies and for other people can't be said for a lot of people, including a large amount of white people. While I agree that it would be nice to have more black owned businesses, not everyone is meant to own a business. And working for someone else does not = working for pennies. Lots of the richest people in this country are working for other people. Hell at my company, you got a lot of people who are rolling in dough, and they got the same boss that I got.
The average white family has hundreds of years of a head start on black people. Of course whites in general have it better. It's been less than a hundred years since we even earned the opportunity to compete on anything approaching a fair level.
And what difference does it make that the black middle class have government jobs. I don't even know that that's true to be honest, because there are a lot of black professionals out there in fields like nursing and engineering or making good money from technical trades like carpentry and automotive repair. And I'm not delusional. I know there are a lot of black people out there in the cold. I never said life was perfect for all black people. Life isn't even perfect for all white people. Still progress takes time, and all trends show that the black middle class is growing meaning that as I've said multiple times now, there is progress in the black community. You last couple of sentences are silly too, because even if you own your own business, you're only as stable as other people make you. You business lives and dies as much by your investors and your clientele as anything you do. There are a lot of people out there on the precipice of poverty and they own their own businesses. Or did you think that owning a business is somehow an automatic key to ultimate success.
But you know what, we can dead this, because it's you that are most definitely delusional. You're questioning the fact that Blacks are doing better in America than they were in the past. Anyone who would even go that far really doesn't have any reason discussing something like this because they have no idea what they are talking about. It's one thing to say that we could and should be doing better. I could agree with that, but to act like we haven't made progress even though 60 years ago a lot of black people couldn't even conceive of the ? that's commonplace now is ? .
When i said we make pennies i mean in comparison to everyone else the fact remains that for every dollar we have they have two. The average white family has not been here for hundreds of years most white people just got here they are irish, german or italian decent. having a middle class created by private jobs is better for a community government jobs may pay but they limit a communities economic power and a large percentage of the black middle class do have government jobs
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/09/152297370/government-job-cuts-threaten-black-middle-class
You need more economic education you seem to equate making money with progress toward wealth but this is a faulty assumption. blacks have more money than we did in the 1960's but we have less relative wealth. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »A great article I read online on the destructive effect integration has had on Blacks........here are just some snippets of it....integration has done more harm then good for Blacks.....
http://www.thinkaboutit-knowaboutit.com/2013/06/did-integration-hurt-black-america.html
Though the Civil Rights Act officially ended legal discrimination, black people continued to face inequality and they were still oppressed. Worse, the black community was fracturing as it rapidly changed from a tight-knit and self-sustaining community to a community that was increasingly coming to rely on white grace. Middle-class black business owners established their own communities, leaving their lower-class brothers and sisters behind. To this day, middle class black Americans and poor black Americans remain separated from each other.
Look at the current state of black America. It is no longer unified as it was under segregation. This is because segregation forced blacks to sink or swim, and they swam by establishing their own self-sustained community.
After segregation ended, black restaurants, theaters, insurance companies, banks, etc. disappeared, and hard economic times destroyed black neighborhoods that had previously flourished. An economic vacuum ensued and jobs were scarce. Coupled with the power vacuum that occurred when black civil rights leaders were killed and subsequent black power movements were destroyed, black America found itself in the midst of a lack of leadership, drugs, gang violence, extreme poverty, and desperation.
But hey, at least America was integrated.
Today, black people spend 95% of their money at white businesses. Black businesses are owned by white enterprises. Though there are some cities that contain black businesses and institutions (most notably Atlanta), millions of black people are still suffering under the conditions that led to the deterioration of black America.
Integration seemed promising, and it did indeed afford blacks many basic human rights. But integration was a promise that failed. It failed to end racism, it failed to end discrimination, and it failed to uplift the black community as a whole. And to this day, blacks and whites still segregate themselves from each other anyway.
So forced segregation against your own will is the solution? It must come out of understanding and love out of your own people. Let black folk make their own choice, especially in the globalized 21st century.
they could have reformed the system not integrate the system, was forced integration the answer to the racial problems in america? i think not. It made the usa a friendlier place to live for black people but in the process blacks lost the only thing that counts in this society economic power aka freedom. Now we have more opportunity but we end up working for other people. Black people have been mis- educated and under-edcuated and therefore do not make good economic choices. That fact is clear and obvious when you look at the numbers. African americans SPENDING POWER will reach 1.1 trillion dollars by 2015 yet blacks are still poor had they reformed segregation then at least half of that money could have been poured into the black community. -
When i said we make pennies i mean in comparison to everyone else the fact remains that for every dollar we have they have two. The average white family has not been here for hundreds of years most white people just got here they are irish, german or italian decent. having a middle class created by private jobs is better for a community government jobs may pay but they limit a communities economic power and a large percentage of the black middle class do have government jobs
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/09/152297370/government-job-cuts-threaten-black-middle-class
You need more economic education you seem to equate making money with progress toward wealth but this is a faulty assumption. blacks have more money than we did in the 1960's but we have less relative wealth.
You're the one that doesn't seem to understand wealth. White people have more wealth than blacks on average because they've been passing that ? from generation to generation. Even with poor white families, when they die, they have something to pass on. Blacks haven't had ? for the majority of their time in this country, so there is nothing for most of us to pass on. No one is saying wealth is the same as making money, but if you're starting from a state of 0 wealth and in a lot of cases for Blacks negative wealth, you have to be able to make money to turn that around. Again, blacks in the past having nothing and not being able to make much to build wealth vs blacks now who still may start out with nothing but can at least climb up the economic ladder so that they can build wealth. There is a big difference between those two states.
And you're going to have to show some kinda prove that most whites in this country descend from relatively recent immigrants. There are pockets of those kinds of people throughout the country, but you're crazy if you think that most of the whites living in the South, Midwest, and even West are descended from recent immigrants. Most of the people you're talking about are concentrated in the Northeast. Most whites have been here for generations. That's part of the reason they just see themselves as Americans and not German Americans or French Americans or British Americans. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »
When i said we make pennies i mean in comparison to everyone else the fact remains that for every dollar we have they have two. The average white family has not been here for hundreds of years most white people just got here they are irish, german or italian decent. having a middle class created by private jobs is better for a community government jobs may pay but they limit a communities economic power and a large percentage of the black middle class do have government jobs
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/09/152297370/government-job-cuts-threaten-black-middle-class
You need more economic education you seem to equate making money with progress toward wealth but this is a faulty assumption. blacks have more money than we did in the 1960's but we have less relative wealth.
You're the one that doesn't seem to understand wealth. White people have more wealth than blacks on average because they've been passing that ? from generation to generation. Even with poor white families, when they die, they have something to pass on. Blacks haven't had ? for the majority of their time in this country, so there is nothing for most of us to pass on. No one is saying wealth is the same as making money, but if you're starting from a state of 0 wealth and in a lot of cases for Blacks negative wealth, you have to be able to make money to turn that around. Again, blacks in the past having nothing and not being able to make much to build wealth vs blacks now who still may start out with nothing but can at least climb up the economic ladder so that they can build wealth. There is a big difference between those two states.
And you're going to have to show some kinda prove that most whites in this country descend from relatively recent immigrants. There are pockets of those kinds of people throughout the country, but you're crazy if you think that most of the whites living in the South, Midwest, and even West are descended from recent immigrants. Most of the people you're talking about are concentrated in the Northeast. Most whites have been here for generations. That's part of the reason they just see themselves as Americans and not German Americans or French Americans or British Americans.The Lonious Monk wrote: »
When i said we make pennies i mean in comparison to everyone else the fact remains that for every dollar we have they have two. The average white family has not been here for hundreds of years most white people just got here they are irish, german or italian decent. having a middle class created by private jobs is better for a community government jobs may pay but they limit a communities economic power and a large percentage of the black middle class do have government jobs
http://www.npr.org/2012/05/09/152297370/government-job-cuts-threaten-black-middle-class
You need more economic education you seem to equate making money with progress toward wealth but this is a faulty assumption. blacks have more money than we did in the 1960's but we have less relative wealth.
You're the one that doesn't seem to understand wealth. White people have more wealth than blacks on average because they've been passing that ? from generation to generation. Even with poor white families, when they die, they have something to pass on. Blacks haven't had ? for the majority of their time in this country, so there is nothing for most of us to pass on. No one is saying wealth is the same as making money, but if you're starting from a state of 0 wealth and in a lot of cases for Blacks negative wealth, you have to be able to make money to turn that around. Again, blacks in the past having nothing and not being able to make much to build wealth vs blacks now who still may start out with nothing but can at least climb up the economic ladder so that they can build wealth. There is a big difference between those two states.
And you're going to have to show some kinda prove that most whites in this country descend from relatively recent immigrants. There are pockets of those kinds of people throughout the country, but you're crazy if you think that most of the whites living in the South, Midwest, and even West are descended from recent immigrants. Most of the people you're talking about are concentrated in the Northeast. Most whites have been here for generations. That's part of the reason they just see themselves as Americans and not German Americans or French Americans or British Americans.
We would not be starting from zero at this point if blacks not not foolishly given up everything they had, blacks owned alot more of their own before integration black had ? to pass on. You belive this lie that black had nothing before integration, but the NOI alone had schools, stores and farms and they were not the only ones.
At least half the white population only got here around or after the time of the civil war. The irish and the italian alone make up at least close to a quater of the entire white population This is not to mention the swedish and norwegians. Only 9% of america is british-american and they are the people who founded this country
all these white nationalities see themselves as americans because they have adopted the culture that is being created in america, they are brought into the american way of life because they are white people. -
yeah, this right here is the lie: "Me asking you your race has nothing to do with my argument"There is no lie, i just want to know your race
typically i do not watch videos in these threads. but if the video says what you're saying, that doesn't actually contradict what i am saying.and did you not watch the second video the man said he would work with other organizations he did not say anything about blacks and white living in a fully integrated society.
my stance is based on observations of Malcolm that you're not even disputing. so what the hell?You have put no proof to your position you just believe in your stance.
another lie, i am sureUnless you can bring some written or video proof to support your position i am not going to argue with you about this anymore.
but seriously, it's not like you're providing more proof that i am, so this is basically you being an angry dude on the internet demanding i meet some level of proof determined by you somehow to "win" the argument. miss me with that ? . either you debate or you don't, either you agree or you don't.
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yeah, this right here is the lie: "Me asking you your race has nothing to do with my argument"There is no lie, i just want to know your race
typically i do not watch videos in these threads. but if the video says what you're saying, that doesn't actually contradict what i am saying.and did you not watch the second video the man said he would work with other organizations he did not say anything about blacks and white living in a fully integrated society.
my stance is based on observations of Malcolm that you're not even disputing. so what the hell?You have put no proof to your position you just believe in your stance.
another lie, i am sureUnless you can bring some written or video proof to support your position i am not going to argue with you about this anymore.
but seriously, it's not like you're providing more proof that i am, so this is basically you being an angry dude on the internet demanding i meet some level of proof determined by you somehow to "win" the argument. miss me with that ? . either you debate or you don't, either you agree or you don't.
Can you answer the ? question what race do you identify as ? me asking you what race you are has nothing to do with the argument that i am making i just want to know. My argument with you is me saying mal x never said he wanted integration you think he was moving toward it but you have no proof.
what are you observation about mal x? you have not laid them out but any way ? OBSERVATION where is the real proof observations are too subjective why should i dispute something you have no evidence of. where is the written material You are not debating anything based on anything. what are you saying that mal x was moving social toward integration. when mal x said he was not. -
You know what @JANKLOW ? it don't answer my post you are white and therefore you thoughts on mal x don't interest me for that matter nor do your thoughts on anything and for being to much of a ? to answer my question i'm just going to out you on ignore you are not thought provoking enough for me to go on speaking to you
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The thing that is funny is you have a short clip shot in what month? What were his speeches about after that? It was about denouncing what he learned in the NOI and promote more of the base of the religion because it had no color. He was still about Black people getting theirs but he also agreed all Whites were not the Devil. What about after his last trip to Africa?
Don't eliminate peoples opinion because of demographics because you Jamaican and views & understanding is different than a Black American. -
The thing that is funny is you have a short clip shot in what month? What were his speeches about after that? It was about denouncing what he learned in the NOI and promote more of the base of the religion because it had no color. He was still about Black people getting theirs but he also agreed all Whites were not the Devil. What about after his last trip to Africa?
Don't eliminate peoples opinion because of demographics because you Jamaican and views & understanding is different than a Black American.
That video was taken after his trip to mecca by that time he had already joined real islam he rejected the religious teaching of the noi as regards the white man being THE DEVIL THE MOTHERSHIP and all that crazy ? the noi teaches.
but that still does not prove he wanted integration or that he had any respect or love for the north american white man and me being jamaican has nothing to do with what mal x believed. let me ask you where is the documentation that mal x wanted social integration and what source are you getting that from? this is not a matter of opinion it's about historical fact.
some people like twisting his image to make him less aggressive to white people and that's that house ? ? and it is disgusting.
