Atheists/Agnostics
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MZBK AND MISSK
AS A CHRISTIAN, I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU COME FROM WITH THE WHOLE "FAITH" CONCEPT AND NO, YOU SHOULDNT BLINDLY FOLLOW ANYONE OR ANYTHING..
FAITH HIS THE BASIS OF BEING A CHRISTIAN.. ? WANTS YOU TO TRUST IN HIM THAT HE HAS THE BEST INTEREST FOR YOU, NOT A "WELL LET ME SEE IF YOU GONE DO THIS 1ST AND THEN I'LL"....
ALL I CAN SAY TO YOU IS TO TRY CHRIST FOR YOURSELF.. NOT BASED ON WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT HIM OR WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THEM.
Thank you and I get what you are saying but aren't your statements contradicting?
NAW... IJS..
U HAVE FAITH IN CERTAIN PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE..A MECHANIC, BANK TELLER, ETC.. JUST GIVE ? /JESUS A TRIAL SOME FAITH LIKE YOU DO HUMANS... -
Anytime people pray, they are essentially speaking to themselves, their subconscious.
So faith does have a part to play in whether or not prayers are answered.
If you believe that things will occur then your subconscious will manifest the results, however if you don't believe or get shaky, then the results will not occur or won't be as successful.
The biggest nonsupernatural example is the placebo effect. Countless studies and trials have been conducted on this phenomenon. Every time it's come about, researchers have concluded that people's belief in the efficacy of a medicine is a large contributing factor to the success rate. Also playing a factor are a doctor's bedside manner, the will to life a patient has, and spirituality.
If we live in an objective reality, then none of these things would be a factor.
Faith is the things hoped for and the evidence of things unseen.
Carl Jung based his entire psychological model around the concept of the collective unconscious, a concept diametrically opposite that of scientific materialism. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »One of the things I find interesting about ? is that even if it is just an imagination imagined by the mind, why do we desire to imagine an ultra great being that we try to be more like?
This is a powerful observation.
I believe that our consciousness and conscience are the "spiritual dna" (for lack of better words) of our Creator. There is something inside all of us that knows there is more to everything and we are driven to be the greater versions of ourselves. -
If you understand the answers and don't like them then that's just your pride/arrogance.
If you don't understand the concepts and how they work together then that is something totally different.
Not sure if this intended for me but I wanted to answer.
I do not understand the answers which is why i do not like them.
I participate in things that interest me things that I like, things that are in agreement with my mind and soul and that I can grasp the understanding while continuously learning. If I do not like it then I will not participate. -
NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »What's good IC,
This thread is for my atheist/agnostic brothers and sisters out here.
Atheists/agnostics, list the reasons you don't believe in a Higher Power/? /Creator/Most High or whatever title you choose (or don't choose). Especially dealing with biblical doctrine.
Also What is your concept or idea of (a) ? (s)?
I believe in a higher power but not the Abrahamic ? . I use the terms ? , Jah, Higher Power, etc. for namesake. I know that there is something that created the world we live in. I do not believe that there is one ? because people have different beliefs/customs/rituals which define/govern their lives. Who am I to say that they are wrong because they don't have the same belief system as me.
I have chosen to take a more spiritual/self examination approach to life. Religion (by definition a set of beliefs that is held by a group of people) has broken the seam of intellectual thinking. I have had several experiences over my lifetime that have shaped the way that I feel and think about religion.
One of the major issues for me with religion is that there are too many questions that cannot be answered to my liking. And yes I said my liking because in order for me to fully accept something I must have a complete understanding or at least a concrete understanding of what I am getting myself into.
Especially the bolded. (although to my liking.. well maybe just answers in general) And whenever I have questioned a member of a church or relatives etc, the answer is always that you must have faith and if you don't have faith then you don't believe. I find it interesting that many I have talked to want me to accept all of this on faith when I don't accept many areas of my life on just blind faith.
It feels like sometimes we humans are taught to question everything but religion.
*I will say that I have just found this thread and still reading through the answers, glad to see a good discussion on this topic so far*
What you are looking for cannot be simply found by asking another human being. Ask ? , even if you don't believe in him keep asking. He heard you and will answer. But to develop the senses to hear,see,feel and understand his answers takes time study and focus. Unless you are specially chosen you are not going to wake up tomorrow and be moses
Siblings can communicate with each other without talking. I can't do the same thing so easily with you because I don't know you
You might be assuming that I haven't but I have and not just once. I prayed all the time for guidance, knowledge, answers. My personal battle is too much to type here and well.. too personal but my journey has been long and continues. I have attended private schools, taken higher education religious based classes, was brought up very exposed to my family's religious beliefs, done women's bible study groups, etc. so I don't come to my conclusions without some knowledge (not to say I am as informed as others). I am not an atheist and I can't say that at some point my views won't change but for now and from what I have learned I can not say that I am a believer. The response that you gave is very typical of what I hear from others. It answers nothing. (for me)
Regardless of my personal beliefs I think faith is a beautiful thing for those that have it and find comfort in it. It got my mother through her battle with cancer even though she did not win.
The bold is exactly how I feel -
MZBK AND MISSK
AS A CHRISTIAN, I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU COME FROM WITH THE WHOLE "FAITH" CONCEPT AND NO, YOU SHOULDNT BLINDLY FOLLOW ANYONE OR ANYTHING..
FAITH HIS THE BASIS OF BEING A CHRISTIAN.. ? WANTS YOU TO TRUST IN HIM THAT HE HAS THE BEST INTEREST FOR YOU, NOT A "WELL LET ME SEE IF YOU GONE DO THIS 1ST AND THEN I'LL"....
ALL I CAN SAY TO YOU IS TO TRY CHRIST FOR YOURSELF.. NOT BASED ON WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT HIM OR WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THEM.
This is always the same generic answer that is given when someone doesn't believe. I've done all of the above and am still not satisfied. What's next? -
MZBK AND MISSK
AS A CHRISTIAN, I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU COME FROM WITH THE WHOLE "FAITH" CONCEPT AND NO, YOU SHOULDNT BLINDLY FOLLOW ANYONE OR ANYTHING..
FAITH HIS THE BASIS OF BEING A CHRISTIAN.. ? WANTS YOU TO TRUST IN HIM THAT HE HAS THE BEST INTEREST FOR YOU, NOT A "WELL LET ME SEE IF YOU GONE DO THIS 1ST AND THEN I'LL"....
ALL I CAN SAY TO YOU IS TO TRY CHRIST FOR YOURSELF.. NOT BASED ON WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT HIM OR WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THEM.
Thank you and I get what you are saying but aren't your statements contradicting?
NAW... IJS..
U HAVE FAITH IN CERTAIN PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE..A MECHANIC, BANK TELLER, ETC.. JUST GIVE ? /JESUS A TRIAL SOME FAITH LIKE YOU DO HUMANS...
Bruh I have the ability to see mechanics, tellers, and whatever do their job so I KNOW they did it. And if they ? up or didnt do it? They have the potential to be held accountable for their actions.
So if theres no way to know that its ? keeping sun going in space, I have no incentive to give that ? credit.
And ? even if there is a diety up there keeping the cosmos togethers, whose to say its ? ? Maybe its Odin? Maybe Its Vishnu? Maybe its a pair of shorts? Maybe its something we have never heard off as humans and cannot conceive in way shape or form?
Maybe its nothing? -
NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Why would any deity intervene like a superhero on our behalf when we have the power to do the godlike thing and walk like gods, but we blatantly choose not to.
We all have/had a conscience but we turn our backs on it, or only apply its principles when it's convenient for us.
The diseases we face as well are a result of the cause and effect of our actions. Everything is cause and effect.
We act like ? exists for only our behalf. Out of everything that has existed in this universe from it's inception, what makes me so special that ? will go out of its way, change law and order to answer a petition on my behalf, when I have/had control to prevent or fix it myself.
Before Moses and the Israelites crossed the Sea of Reeds they were panicking and praying because they appeared to be trapped between the sea and the approaching army. ? 's response was "Why do you cry to me? Speak to the children of Israel and let them go forward"
He basically told Moses I gave you everything you need to make miraculous things happen, now apply it. All of the problems we face, except death, we can reverse through action, but WE choose not to.
this is a copout ima keep it real.
The whole point of religion is that there's a powerful cosmological force that created you and takes care of all the things in the universe that are beyond our comprehension.
What separates religions and gives them any sort of identity or humanity is how involved a diety is with the human condition.
If you remove the personal savior aspect of religion then what point is there to worship a diety? If youre assuming a deity is just a giant cosmic janitor then ? thats pretty impersonal. And honestly you dont even know if its them pulling the strings for the cosmos. Could be zeus or superman or a box of napkins
And I find it suspect that the majority of Judeo Christians base the core of their relationship with Yahweh by his ability to help them through life and that ? a huge tenet of Judeo Christianity is "gods got this" yet when we get in a more intellectually critical discussion of what ? should be doing, its all "naw bruh they got it wrong, gods supposed to be handling the big ? , we stuck in our own BS down here"
Kinda looks like moving the goalposts -
Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Why would any deity intervene like a superhero on our behalf when we have the power to do the godlike thing and walk like gods, but we blatantly choose not to.
We all have/had a conscience but we turn our backs on it, or only apply its principles when it's convenient for us.
The diseases we face as well are a result of the cause and effect of our actions. Everything is cause and effect.
We act like ? exists for only our behalf. Out of everything that has existed in this universe from it's inception, what makes me so special that ? will go out of its way, change law and order to answer a petition on my behalf, when I have/had control to prevent or fix it myself.
Before Moses and the Israelites crossed the Sea of Reeds they were panicking and praying because they appeared to be trapped between the sea and the approaching army. ? 's response was "Why do you cry to me? Speak to the children of Israel and let them go forward"
He basically told Moses I gave you everything you need to make miraculous things happen, now apply it. All of the problems we face, except death, we can reverse through action, but WE choose not to.
this is a copout ima keep it real.
The whole point of religion is that there's a powerful cosmological force that created you and takes care of all the things in the universe that are beyond our comprehension.
What separates religions and gives them any sort of identity or humanity is how involved a diety is with the human condition.
If you remove the personal savior aspect of religion then what point is there to worship a diety? If youre assuming a deity is just a giant cosmic janitor then ? thats pretty impersonal. And honestly you dont even know if its them pulling the strings for the cosmos. Could be zeus or superman or a box of napkins
And I find it suspect that the majority of Judeo Christians base the core of their relationship with Yahweh by his ability to help them through life and that ? a huge tenet of Judeo Christianity is "gods got this" yet when we get in a more intellectually critical discussion of what ? should be doing, its all "naw bruh they got it wrong, gods supposed to be handling the big ? , we stuck in our own BS down here"
Kinda looks like moving the goalposts
I respectfully disagree. Everything I said was about personal accountability. We can't wait for someone outside of ourselves to do what we have the power to do. -
NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Why would any deity intervene like a superhero on our behalf when we have the power to do the godlike thing and walk like gods, but we blatantly choose not to.
We all have/had a conscience but we turn our backs on it, or only apply its principles when it's convenient for us.
The diseases we face as well are a result of the cause and effect of our actions. Everything is cause and effect.
We act like ? exists for only our behalf. Out of everything that has existed in this universe from it's inception, what makes me so special that ? will go out of its way, change law and order to answer a petition on my behalf, when I have/had control to prevent or fix it myself.
Before Moses and the Israelites crossed the Sea of Reeds they were panicking and praying because they appeared to be trapped between the sea and the approaching army. ? 's response was "Why do you cry to me? Speak to the children of Israel and let them go forward"
He basically told Moses I gave you everything you need to make miraculous things happen, now apply it. All of the problems we face, except death, we can reverse through action, but WE choose not to.
this is a copout ima keep it real.
The whole point of religion is that there's a powerful cosmological force that created you and takes care of all the things in the universe that are beyond our comprehension.
What separates religions and gives them any sort of identity or humanity is how involved a diety is with the human condition.
If you remove the personal savior aspect of religion then what point is there to worship a diety? If youre assuming a deity is just a giant cosmic janitor then ? thats pretty impersonal. And honestly you dont even know if its them pulling the strings for the cosmos. Could be zeus or superman or a box of napkins
And I find it suspect that the majority of Judeo Christians base the core of their relationship with Yahweh by his ability to help them through life and that ? a huge tenet of Judeo Christianity is "gods got this" yet when we get in a more intellectually critical discussion of what ? should be doing, its all "naw bruh they got it wrong, gods supposed to be handling the big ? , we stuck in our own BS down here"
Kinda looks like moving the goalposts
I respectfully disagree. Everything I said was about personal accountability. We can't wait for someone outside of ourselves to do what we have the power to do.
Why should we fix it when its all gods fault? he's the supreme creator and shaped our destinies before we were born. He's the master of the universe. Nothing happens without his supervision, right? So its on him.
And lets say for whatever reason we downplay gods omnipotence (which is an oxymoron) and our free will supersedes his divine power or he actively CHOOSES to be non interventionist (which is cruelty on a universal scale) , ? still created us and put us on his earth, in his universe. We're under his supervision. When ? goes bad in any organization, at some point, its the bosses fault.
When do we hold ? accountable?
-
Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Why would any deity intervene like a superhero on our behalf when we have the power to do the godlike thing and walk like gods, but we blatantly choose not to.
We all have/had a conscience but we turn our backs on it, or only apply its principles when it's convenient for us.
The diseases we face as well are a result of the cause and effect of our actions. Everything is cause and effect.
We act like ? exists for only our behalf. Out of everything that has existed in this universe from it's inception, what makes me so special that ? will go out of its way, change law and order to answer a petition on my behalf, when I have/had control to prevent or fix it myself.
Before Moses and the Israelites crossed the Sea of Reeds they were panicking and praying because they appeared to be trapped between the sea and the approaching army. ? 's response was "Why do you cry to me? Speak to the children of Israel and let them go forward"
He basically told Moses I gave you everything you need to make miraculous things happen, now apply it. All of the problems we face, except death, we can reverse through action, but WE choose not to.
this is a copout ima keep it real.
The whole point of religion is that there's a powerful cosmological force that created you and takes care of all the things in the universe that are beyond our comprehension.
What separates religions and gives them any sort of identity or humanity is how involved a diety is with the human condition.
If you remove the personal savior aspect of religion then what point is there to worship a diety? If youre assuming a deity is just a giant cosmic janitor then ? thats pretty impersonal. And honestly you dont even know if its them pulling the strings for the cosmos. Could be zeus or superman or a box of napkins
And I find it suspect that the majority of Judeo Christians base the core of their relationship with Yahweh by his ability to help them through life and that ? a huge tenet of Judeo Christianity is "gods got this" yet when we get in a more intellectually critical discussion of what ? should be doing, its all "naw bruh they got it wrong, gods supposed to be handling the big ? , we stuck in our own BS down here"
Kinda looks like moving the goalposts
I respectfully disagree. Everything I said was about personal accountability. We can't wait for someone outside of ourselves to do what we have the power to do.
Why should we fix it when its all gods fault? he's the supreme creator and shaped our destinies before we were born. He's the master of the universe. Nothing happens without his supervision, right? So its on him.
And lets say for whatever reason we downplay gods omnipotence (which is an oxymoron) and our free will supersedes his divine power or he actively CHOOSES to be non interventionist (which is cruelty on a universal scale) , ? still created us and put us on his earth, in his universe. We're under his supervision. When ? goes bad in any organization, at some point, its the bosses fault.
When do we hold ? accountable?
? established laws, cause and effect.
A fire for example will burn me regardless of my knowledge or acceptance of fire. It's a law of flame vs flesh, it's not personal. I can only hold myself accountable. I can't look to someone else and say why didn't you forcibly stop me from my own actions. Now ? 's bad. Cause and effect.
Cruelty is us toward each other.
When do we hold ourselves accountable? -
HMMMMmmmmmmmmm, where do I start.
1. ? prophets/senseless war starters(none of their followers have an issue with this lol)
2. Treating women like property and 2nd class citizens
3. There's a million religions who all think they right and the others are wrong
4. The most tragic moments in human history came from religion being involved some kind of way
5. Pregnant virgins
6. People walking on water
7. Dividing people
8. Talking snakes
9. Magical garden that has never been found
10. No mention of the dinosaurs or other planets in the galaxy
11. Constant retellings over the years
12. Shitloads of inconsistencies and just flat out fake ?
13. A woman coming from a mans rib bone
14. Makes people think they are better or know more about the world than others
15. Most Religious people/religions(not all) usually denounce common sense(like science)
16. It's pretty much nothing but a hustle now at days or just makes people feel better about being a ? up
ETC ETC......
All that ? I listed is ? madness. The people who follow it look like mindless drones to the free thinking people of the world. religion hasn't progressed ? !!! It's actually held us back when you really take a look at history.
On some real real real ? though. I'm just gonna say this as clear as possible. 90% of all you "enlightened" religious folks are fake as ? and you really aint bout that religious life. If you actually are, you aint 100% comfortable with it. Y'all aint no different from us none religious folks, except the fact that we don't think we're going to a better place than the rest of human kind when we die.
And don't say you aint fake and break the rules of your faith every ? minute every day. WE ALL KNOW YOU OR SOMEBODY LIKE YOU!! So more than likely you aint no special case. We see the fakeness all day everyday with y'all on here and everywhere else.
You are not special!
You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake!
You're not your job!
You're not how much money you have in the bank!
You're not the car you drive!
You're not the contents of your wallet!
You're not your ? khakis!
You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else!
We're all part of the same compost heap!
We're all singing, all dancing ? of the world. -
Knives Amilli wrote: »MZBK AND MISSK
AS A CHRISTIAN, I FULLY UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU COME FROM WITH THE WHOLE "FAITH" CONCEPT AND NO, YOU SHOULDNT BLINDLY FOLLOW ANYONE OR ANYTHING..
FAITH HIS THE BASIS OF BEING A CHRISTIAN.. ? WANTS YOU TO TRUST IN HIM THAT HE HAS THE BEST INTEREST FOR YOU, NOT A "WELL LET ME SEE IF YOU GONE DO THIS 1ST AND THEN I'LL"....
ALL I CAN SAY TO YOU IS TO TRY CHRIST FOR YOURSELF.. NOT BASED ON WHAT ANYONE ELSE SAYS ABOUT HIM OR WHAT HE HAS DONE FOR THEM.
Thank you and I get what you are saying but aren't your statements contradicting?
NAW... IJS..
U HAVE FAITH IN CERTAIN PEOPLE IN YOUR LIFE..A MECHANIC, BANK TELLER, ETC.. JUST GIVE ? /JESUS A TRIAL SOME FAITH LIKE YOU DO HUMANS...
Bruh I have the ability to see mechanics, tellers, and whatever do their job so I KNOW they did it. And if they ? up or didnt do it? They have the potential to be held accountable for their actions.
So if theres no way to know that its ? keeping sun going in space, I have no incentive to give that ? credit.
And ? even if there is a diety up there keeping the cosmos togethers, whose to say its ? ? Maybe its Odin? Maybe Its Vishnu? Maybe its a pair of shorts? Maybe its something we have never heard off as humans and cannot conceive in way shape or form?
Maybe its nothing?
Exactly, who are we to say it's a "? " that is doing all this stuff. Maybe its a robot or machine created by aliens that made the universe, maybe a giant, magical guinea pig, in the end, we truly don't know. And I damn sure don't see a ? working miracles out there on Earth or the universe out there. Religious people say to have faith and whatever, but a little kid following a ? in his or her van has faith too. Faith on its own means nothing, not all faith is good. If I'm gonna have "faith" in something, I need something to back it up. -
BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »HMMMMmmmmmmmmm, where do I start.
1. ? prophets/senseless war starters(none of their followers have an issue with this lol)
2. Treating women like property and 2nd class citizens
3. There's a million religions who all think they right and the others are wrong
4. The most tragic moments in human history came from religion being involved some kind of way
5. Pregnant virgins
6. People walking on water
7. Dividing people
8. Talking snakes
9. Magical garden that has never been found
10. No mention of the dinosaurs or other planets in the galaxy
11. Constant retellings over the years
12. Shitloads of inconsistencies and just flat out fake ?
13. A woman coming from a mans rib bone
14. Makes people think they are better or know more about the world than others
15. Most Religious people/religions(not all) usually denounce common sense(like science)
16. It's pretty much nothing but a hustle now at days or just makes people feel better about being a ? up
ETC ETC......
All that ? I listed is ? madness. The people who follow it look like mindless drones to the free thinking people of the world. religion hasn't progressed ? !!! It's actually held us back when you really take a look at history.
On some real real real ? though. I'm just gonna say this as clear as possible. 90% of all you "enlightened" religious folks are fake as ? and you really aint bout that religious life. If you actually are, you aint 100% comfortable with it. Y'all aint no different from us none religious folks, except the fact that we don't think we're going to a better place than the rest of human kind when we die.
And don't say you aint fake and break the rules of your faith every ? minute every day. WE ALL KNOW YOU OR SOMEBODY LIKE YOU!! So more than likely you aint no special case. We see the fakeness all day everyday with y'all on here and everywhere else.
You are not special!
You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake!
You're not your job!
You're not how much money you have in the bank!
You're not the car you drive!
You're not the contents of your wallet!
You're not your ? khakis!
You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else!
We're all part of the same compost heap!
We're all singing, all dancing ? of the world.
Very blunt but you basically kept it hood and real, I've never been fooled by religious type people. Religious mufuckas usually don't even take their own religion seriously, so why should anyone else. And looking at religious folk historically, like jihadi groups that oppress minorities in Nigeria and elsewhere, or disgusting Christians who historically have been the most savage and despicable group of people to ever walk the Earth, I can say with great confidence organized religion and its impact worldwide has been extremely negative.
How PATHETIC the biggest colonialists and genocide fanatics the last few hundred years belong to Christian groups. How amazing is it that Christian nations historically have been the most bloodthirsty and craven for blood and genocide compared to others. It just goes to show that religion in the end means almost NOTHING when it comes to improving behavior. Word to American Christian slave owners who enjoyed ? and violence, along with Christian pilgrims who used their Bible to justify the destruction, murder and genocide of Native Americans. ? all that organized religion ? . -
NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Why would any deity intervene like a superhero on our behalf when we have the power to do the godlike thing and walk like gods, but we blatantly choose not to.
We all have/had a conscience but we turn our backs on it, or only apply its principles when it's convenient for us.
The diseases we face as well are a result of the cause and effect of our actions. Everything is cause and effect.
We act like ? exists for only our behalf. Out of everything that has existed in this universe from it's inception, what makes me so special that ? will go out of its way, change law and order to answer a petition on my behalf, when I have/had control to prevent or fix it myself.
Before Moses and the Israelites crossed the Sea of Reeds they were panicking and praying because they appeared to be trapped between the sea and the approaching army. ? 's response was "Why do you cry to me? Speak to the children of Israel and let them go forward"
He basically told Moses I gave you everything you need to make miraculous things happen, now apply it. All of the problems we face, except death, we can reverse through action, but WE choose not to.
this is a copout ima keep it real.
The whole point of religion is that there's a powerful cosmological force that created you and takes care of all the things in the universe that are beyond our comprehension.
What separates religions and gives them any sort of identity or humanity is how involved a diety is with the human condition.
If you remove the personal savior aspect of religion then what point is there to worship a diety? If youre assuming a deity is just a giant cosmic janitor then ? thats pretty impersonal. And honestly you dont even know if its them pulling the strings for the cosmos. Could be zeus or superman or a box of napkins
And I find it suspect that the majority of Judeo Christians base the core of their relationship with Yahweh by his ability to help them through life and that ? a huge tenet of Judeo Christianity is "gods got this" yet when we get in a more intellectually critical discussion of what ? should be doing, its all "naw bruh they got it wrong, gods supposed to be handling the big ? , we stuck in our own BS down here"
Kinda looks like moving the goalposts
I respectfully disagree. Everything I said was about personal accountability. We can't wait for someone outside of ourselves to do what we have the power to do.
Why should we fix it when its all gods fault? he's the supreme creator and shaped our destinies before we were born. He's the master of the universe. Nothing happens without his supervision, right? So its on him.
And lets say for whatever reason we downplay gods omnipotence (which is an oxymoron) and our free will supersedes his divine power or he actively CHOOSES to be non interventionist (which is cruelty on a universal scale) , ? still created us and put us on his earth, in his universe. We're under his supervision. When ? goes bad in any organization, at some point, its the bosses fault.
When do we hold ? accountable?
? established laws, cause and effect.
A fire for example will burn me regardless of my knowledge or acceptance of fire. It's a law of flame vs flesh, it's not personal. I can only hold myself accountable. I can't look to someone else and say why didn't you forcibly stop me from my own actions. Now ? 's bad. Cause and effect.
Cruelty is us toward each other.
When do we hold ourselves accountable?
How do you explain people born mentally ? , who don't know much better but to hurt themselves accidentally? What about the mentally ? who are aware that they are ? and the pain they have to go through knowing how people will treat them? I used to be a counselor and believe me, I can write a book about what I've seen and heard.
And cruelty is beyond what humans do to each other, have you ever heard of natural disasters and disease? Who the ? made that? ? ?? Well then, ? is a big ? up then. Plain and simple. If a ? did not make these things, then please tell us who did, so we can hold that being fully responsible.
Cruelty is the predator/prey relationship that goes on in the world, word to baby zebras being brutally eaten alive by a hyena. Who is responsible for these natural cruelties? Not humans lol -
Lol the old problem of evil would be less of a problem for atheists if they would stop putting their expectations on how a supreme being should act.
People die and suffer . the pain caused by humans is the fault of humans , the suffering caused by nature is perfectly fine as far as I am concerned because the system has death built into it and thank ? for that death and suffering because it's a blessing not a curse and if you say otherwise
You atheists really need to take another look at the garden story you are seriously missing something. pay attention to what the serpent really tried to do. -
BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »HMMMMmmmmmmmmm, where do I start.
1. ? prophets/senseless war starters(none of their followers have an issue with this lol)
2. Treating women like property and 2nd class citizens
3. There's a million religions who all think they right and the others are wrong
4. The most tragic moments in human history came from religion being involved some kind of way
5. Pregnant virgins
6. People walking on water
7. Dividing people
8. Talking snakes
9. Magical garden that has never been found
10. No mention of the dinosaurs or other planets in the galaxy
11. Constant retellings over the years
12. Shitloads of inconsistencies and just flat out fake ?
13. A woman coming from a mans rib bone
14. Makes people think they are better or know more about the world than others
15. Most Religious people/religions(not all) usually denounce common sense(like science)
16. It's pretty much nothing but a hustle now at days or just makes people feel better about being a ? up
ETC ETC......
All that ? I listed is ? madness. The people who follow it look like mindless drones to the free thinking people of the world. religion hasn't progressed ? !!! It's actually held us back when you really take a look at history.
On some real real real ? though. I'm just gonna say this as clear as possible. 90% of all you "enlightened" religious folks are fake as ? and you really aint bout that religious life. If you actually are, you aint 100% comfortable with it. Y'all aint no different from us none religious folks, except the fact that we don't think we're going to a better place than the rest of human kind when we die.
And don't say you aint fake and break the rules of your faith every ? minute every day. WE ALL KNOW YOU OR SOMEBODY LIKE YOU!! So more than likely you aint no special case. We see the fakeness all day everyday with y'all on here and everywhere else.
You are not special!
You're not a beautiful and unique snowflake!
You're not your job!
You're not how much money you have in the bank!
You're not the car you drive!
You're not the contents of your wallet!
You're not your ? khakis!
You're the same decaying organic matter as everything else!
We're all part of the same compost heap!
We're all singing, all dancing ? of the world.
When you sin it doesn't eliminate your faith it's just a sign of your weakness.I think one of the reasons as for the loads on nonsense in your post is your preconceived notions of how a religious person should behave. The garden story is not meant to be literal traditional not even the jews, israelites, Hebrews believed the story was literal. -
And humanity is extremely special the fact that we even exist at all is a magical in of itself
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kingblaze84 wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Knives Amilli wrote: »NeighborhoodNomad. wrote: »Why would any deity intervene like a superhero on our behalf when we have the power to do the godlike thing and walk like gods, but we blatantly choose not to.
We all have/had a conscience but we turn our backs on it, or only apply its principles when it's convenient for us.
The diseases we face as well are a result of the cause and effect of our actions. Everything is cause and effect.
We act like ? exists for only our behalf. Out of everything that has existed in this universe from it's inception, what makes me so special that ? will go out of its way, change law and order to answer a petition on my behalf, when I have/had control to prevent or fix it myself.
Before Moses and the Israelites crossed the Sea of Reeds they were panicking and praying because they appeared to be trapped between the sea and the approaching army. ? 's response was "Why do you cry to me? Speak to the children of Israel and let them go forward"
He basically told Moses I gave you everything you need to make miraculous things happen, now apply it. All of the problems we face, except death, we can reverse through action, but WE choose not to.
this is a copout ima keep it real.
The whole point of religion is that there's a powerful cosmological force that created you and takes care of all the things in the universe that are beyond our comprehension.
What separates religions and gives them any sort of identity or humanity is how involved a diety is with the human condition.
If you remove the personal savior aspect of religion then what point is there to worship a diety? If youre assuming a deity is just a giant cosmic janitor then ? thats pretty impersonal. And honestly you dont even know if its them pulling the strings for the cosmos. Could be zeus or superman or a box of napkins
And I find it suspect that the majority of Judeo Christians base the core of their relationship with Yahweh by his ability to help them through life and that ? a huge tenet of Judeo Christianity is "gods got this" yet when we get in a more intellectually critical discussion of what ? should be doing, its all "naw bruh they got it wrong, gods supposed to be handling the big ? , we stuck in our own BS down here"
Kinda looks like moving the goalposts
I respectfully disagree. Everything I said was about personal accountability. We can't wait for someone outside of ourselves to do what we have the power to do.
Why should we fix it when its all gods fault? he's the supreme creator and shaped our destinies before we were born. He's the master of the universe. Nothing happens without his supervision, right? So its on him.
And lets say for whatever reason we downplay gods omnipotence (which is an oxymoron) and our free will supersedes his divine power or he actively CHOOSES to be non interventionist (which is cruelty on a universal scale) , ? still created us and put us on his earth, in his universe. We're under his supervision. When ? goes bad in any organization, at some point, its the bosses fault.
When do we hold ? accountable?
? established laws, cause and effect.
A fire for example will burn me regardless of my knowledge or acceptance of fire. It's a law of flame vs flesh, it's not personal. I can only hold myself accountable. I can't look to someone else and say why didn't you forcibly stop me from my own actions. Now ? 's bad. Cause and effect.
Cruelty is us toward each other.
When do we hold ourselves accountable?
How do you explain people born mentally ? , who don't know much better but to hurt themselves accidentally? What about the mentally ? who are aware that they are ? and the pain they have to go through knowing how people will treat them? I used to be a counselor and believe me, I can write a book about what I've seen and heard.
And cruelty is beyond what humans do to each other, have you ever heard of natural disasters and disease? Who the ? made that? ? ?? Well then, ? is a big ? up then. Plain and simple. If a ? did not make these things, then please tell us who did, so we can hold that being fully responsible.
Cruelty is the predator/prey relationship that goes on in the world, word to baby zebras being brutally eaten alive by a hyena. Who is responsible for these natural cruelties? Not humans lol
Cause and effect. The diseases we get, and the deformities we are born with are a result of cause and effect. _+_+_-_= the fetus not developing properly in the ? , and so on. We do it to ourselves. It's not personal, it's a law.
Predator/Prey is far from cruelty, it's the way it is. Hyenas are designed to eat meat, and a zebra is meat. It's not personal.
Natural occurrences as well, are a cause an effect not cruelty, many may be beyond our control, but all of them follow law. -
The fact that we possess consciousness makes us special, not unique, but special nonetheless.
Consciousness is the one main ingredient of life that people cannot wrap their minds around.
It is THE MYSTERY. Why do we have Consciousness, where does it exist, what is it made of, what is its effect on the physical world?
Religions, most religions are nothing more than man wrestling with these ideas, coming to grips with their origin beyond the physical universe. Most religions are metaphorical, allegorical, figurative because it takes mysteries of existence and dressers them in stories that the human mind can comprehend. -
The fact that we possess consciousness makes us special, not unique, but special nonetheless.
Consciousness is the one main ingredient of life that people cannot wrap their minds around.
It is THE MYSTERY. Why do we have Consciousness, where does it exist, what is it made of, what is its effect on the physical world?
Religions, most religions are nothing more than man wrestling with these ideas, coming to grips with their origin beyond the physical universe. Most religions are metaphorical, allegorical, figurative because it takes mysteries of existence and dressers them in stories that the human mind can comprehend.
I love it!!!!!!! Using logic anybody can see this. But you left out one more thing, it also is used for CONTROL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!(Good and bad, mostly bad though, as you can clearly see by looking into history).
My ? @zzombie
I would like to see you point out the nonsense in my post that I already posted about when dealing with religions. Everything I posted is what you and others strongly believe in and follow...........ONLY WHEN IT SUITS YOU ALL lol. Like I said, y'all aint ? but regular ass people trying to be more than what you actually are. You don't know no more about this world, it's creation etc etc than any person who chooses not to be apart of that madness.
RELIGION IS ? BROKEN!!!!!!!!!!!! BRUH. It's been that way for at least 3,000 years now. Before that everybody seemed to be doing big things and there was barley any mass violence. Look at all these mysterious and great structures all over the world that are just sitting there. Look at all this complicated science and other ? that has been discovered all over the world. ? that matches and surpasses stuff we have today. This was back in a time where we supposedly wasn't able to accomplish all of this. All of this was built before your religion was even thought of.
Man I just thought of a great thread to make!!! Thank you brother @zzombie -
Who ever said religious people are special??? like I said That's your own preconceived notions, it's nonsense. Science is great but all science really does is create new tools.
There is no ancient advanced technology you watch to much ancient aliens. Lol you don't know much about history. Mass killings and violence has always been a human constant -
Our perception of ? as an all-knowing, all-seeing, all-powerful being that has a direct interest in each of our daily lives is as unrealistic as it is vain. Do we as the dominant species on this planet (self-proclaimed) actively involve ourselves in the life of ants?
Assuming that ? exists is not in itself a bad thing, however, assuming that we know ? is where we go wrong. ? as referred to in the scripture as the father of life, intimates that ? is male and we view him as such. However, he, the father, etc. are just anthropomorphic terms used to conform ? to fit into our extremely narrow range of understanding.
Perhaps ? is Love just like Marvin posited: an entity within us all that we can neither adequately describe nor prove that we are worthy of.
Or perhaps ? is not greater than us at all. Maybe ? is a subatomic entity responsible for the creation of all matter and by extension all life. Therefore, ? will be ubiquitous all the time. Maybe ? is the smallest building block of all of us that grew and became more complex with adaptation and evolution. Perhaps the great entity that we perceive ? to be - i.e. the all-knowing, all-powerful - is next stage of human evolution that we intuitively perceive through foresight.
Or maybe we're all wrong and our just wasting our time. A person's belief in ? (or lack thereof) is between that person and ? . No one can convince the other, so we should just focus on living. -
That's my whole point its a fallacy to attribute any aspect of the universe to "? " based off the fact that its from the most "popular" religion. What if for example....another story of how the universe started was the most popular and had its own "churches" would it automatically be attributed to that "religion"
As far as we know.....WE DON"T KNOW MUCH, why is that so hard for humanity to accept, I think its exciting.
Why do all theories have to lead back to popular "religions" when there are thousands of different stories of how life started? -
I have been conscious for 23 years. then got really conscious 10 years ago, so i thought. i thought it meant that religion is ? , all of it, and the white man is the devil. Thats what i thought made me conscious. Ohhhh no. i had more work to do.
I need to look to the bible for teachings. before, i just called it a book written by prehistoric white people. But reading it metaphysically opened up so much. I need to get down with the hinduism. the occult. voo doo. christianity. all of it. Thats where the secrets at. the meaning behind the meaning. the hidden culture.
I wanna close my eyes and go somewhere when i lay me down to sleep. i wanna go to hell. if i dont like it, i will have enough knowledge of self to just leave. I'll check out heaven too even tho i know its really gonna be ? . pause. and i wanna check out all the other planets and life and all that jazz. yall can chill in heaven and walk with jesus if u want to. because if im with jesus, he gon be walkin and imma be flyin SO WHO REALLY THE ? !
Ive been avoiding this but im finally learning about the kundalini energy. which is the christ energy. 7 major chakras. jesus is the 4th chakra. the heart chakra. Once u have jesus in your heart and believe, you shall not perish but have everlasting life. Be if u look at the pic below, jesus is point up, telling me that i have more work to do to rise up to to get to heaven. the crown chakra. Personally i have achieved the 5th chakra, the throat chakra. I seen the smokey purple hue, and i wasnt even sleep. So, thats my 2 cents.
