To those who believe in a kind and merciful ? ....why is the world so hostile to life?

kingblaze84
kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
As I've said in several threads in the past, I lean agnostic but leave open the possibility a "? " could exist.

But the world's major religions often describe a "merciful" and "loving" ? and being observant, I don't see the evidence for this. Me and my homegirl went to see Ride Along 2 this weekend and on our way there in Manhattan, came across a bunch of freezing, very cold homeless people. Some of them had signs that said "need a prayer and food" and I suddenly thought, why does it have to be so damn cold for these people who can't afford a home?

My homegirl said that ? will answer their prayers eventually, but a lot of these people seemed to be in their 50s and older. Later that same night, I watched Animal Planet and over and over again, saw images of animals being eaten alive or running for their lives terrified of other animals. Or freezing or starving to death because they were too injured to fend for themselves. The saddest part is that in nature, the young and sick are eaten alive in the worst ways, sometimes in front of their parents.

So to those who truly believe in a merciful and kind ? , where is the evidence of this?? Cuz while my life or your life may be going fairly well, there are billions of humans and animals worldwide who can't say the same.
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Comments

  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This video from Neil Degrasse Tyson also had me thinking......he points out that most most birth defects have no known cause and that humans can't live on 66% of Earth's land mass. And the parts that we do live on, often have to deal with floods, droughts and other natural disasters

    https://youtu.be/4238NN8HMgQ

  • DoUwant2go2Heaven
    DoUwant2go2Heaven Members Posts: 10,425 ✭✭✭✭✭
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    Sin

    I thought you said Jesus forgave and died for our sins? Are you trying to say him dying for our sins didn't make a difference in the long term?
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?

    You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.

    And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.
  • playmaker88
    playmaker88 Members Posts: 67,905 ✭✭✭✭✭
    I didnt read none of that ? ..

    But people make choices bad choices.. free will.

    Hate, Jealousy, anger Bitterness makes some people go..
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    I didnt read none of that ? ..

    But people make choices bad choices.. free will.

    Hate, Jealousy, anger Bitterness makes some people go..

    So disease, earthquakes, extreme weather, radiation, floods, birth defects, and hostile parasites from mother nature are caused by people?
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?

    You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.

    And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.

    To your first paragraph like I said you have so little understanding and knowledge of the bible that you don't understand because you refuse to.

    I didn't say they were responsible for all I said just that it ultimately comes down to man. I said nature and Earth just are they don't approve or disapprove they just happen it's not hostile or friendly in anyway.

    Again try to shape it as much as you want and list as many reasons no matter how correct and incorrect your are it's still man. As far as you trying to pass off free will because of mentally retardation or financial difficulties it doesn't change the fact. At anytime at any mintue anyone can do anything they want wither it positively or negatively affect their life. It's as simple as that to say otherwise is to denounce all freewill
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    This ? knows nothing about the bible... Smh yet claims he went to Catholic school, clearly he was not paying attention in class.
  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    There are literally hundreds maybe thousands of books by theologians who have answered this question already, Who have explained what the bible says is the answer to this question....Who have given great analysis on this topic

    The earth is marred the whole of existence has been altered from what ? originally intended. Therefore suffering exists among man and in nature.
  • And_So_It_Burns
    And_So_It_Burns Members Posts: 921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals.

    This statement is non-sense. Over 99% off all the species to ever exist on this earth are now extinct. The rapid an unexpected climatic changes on earth contributes significantly.
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    ? either intervenes or he doesn't. I think all of the monotheistic holy books make the case that he does interfer to a great extent. He even takes sides in wars.

    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    There's some truth to this. We can't rely on a silent ? to answer our prayers. We have to help each other out.
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals.

    This statement is non-sense. Over 99% off all the species to ever exist on this earth are now extinct. The rapid an unexpected climatic changes on earth contributes significantly.
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    ? either intervenes or he doesn't. I think all of the monotheistic holy books make the case that he does interfer to a great extent. He even takes sides in wars.

    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    There's some truth to this. We can't rely on a silent ? to answer our prayers. We have to help each other out.

    To the first statement isn't nonsense at all especially in the way he phrased the question. Like I said Earth and nature just is. Nature doesn't conspire against anyway so how could it fundamentally be hostile? I never said that creatures haven't been killed just that nature in itself isn't hostile. Better way to state it is that nature and the world is completly indifferent to every creature on it.

    To the second part read the bible. He intervenes very little. I'm personal am a deist. He created the world to delivar his message and left us to our own devices.


    And as far as Blaze goes I don't get why he pretends to be open about the possibility of a ? or atleast ? of the bible existing. It's very clearly he refuses to learn and has general scorn towards the whole religion.
  • And_So_It_Burns
    And_So_It_Burns Members Posts: 921 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals.

    This statement is non-sense. Over 99% off all the species to ever exist on this earth are now extinct. The rapid an unexpected climatic changes on earth contributes significantly.
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    ? either intervenes or he doesn't. I think all of the monotheistic holy books make the case that he does interfer to a great extent. He even takes sides in wars.

    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    There's some truth to this. We can't rely on a silent ? to answer our prayers. We have to help each other out.

    To the first statement isn't nonsense at all especially in the way he phrased the question. Like I said Earth and nature just is. Nature doesn't conspire against anyway so how could it fundamentally be hostile? I never said that creatures haven't been killed just that nature in itself isn't hostile. Better way to state it is that nature and the world is completly indifferent to every creature on it.

    To the second part read the bible. He intervenes very little. I'm personal am a deist. He created the world to delivar his message and left us to our own devices.


    And as far as Blaze goes I don't get why he pretends to be open about the possibility of a ? or atleast ? of the bible existing. It's very clearly he refuses to learn and has general scorn towards the whole religion.

    I think you're mischaracterizing his question. You're responding as if he asked "is nature evil." or "does nature intend to do us harm" Of course not, it's pointless to personify nature. I don't think you can really dodge the question based on the way it was phrase. A better way would be asking is if the apparent hostility in nature is compatible with a merciful ? .

    the story that ties all monotheistic religions together is based on ? intervening. In the story of Abraham. Then we have the floods in which ? obliterates all human and animal life . I'm not sure how consider murdering all life on earth with the exception of a lucky few as "intervenes very little" ? 's intervention is salient in the bible
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals.

    This statement is non-sense. Over 99% off all the species to ever exist on this earth are now extinct. The rapid an unexpected climatic changes on earth contributes significantly.
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    ? either intervenes or he doesn't. I think all of the monotheistic holy books make the case that he does interfer to a great extent. He even takes sides in wars.

    The_Jackal wrote: »
    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    There's some truth to this. We can't rely on a silent ? to answer our prayers. We have to help each other out.

    To the first statement isn't nonsense at all especially in the way he phrased the question. Like I said Earth and nature just is. Nature doesn't conspire against anyway so how could it fundamentally be hostile? I never said that creatures haven't been killed just that nature in itself isn't hostile. Better way to state it is that nature and the world is completly indifferent to every creature on it.

    To the second part read the bible. He intervenes very little. I'm personal am a deist. He created the world to delivar his message and left us to our own devices.


    And as far as Blaze goes I don't get why he pretends to be open about the possibility of a ? or atleast ? of the bible existing. It's very clearly he refuses to learn and has general scorn towards the whole religion.

    I think you're mischaracterizing his question. You're responding as if he asked "is nature evil." or "does nature intend to do us harm" Of course not, it's pointless to personify nature. I don't think you can really dodge the question based on the way it was phrase. A better way would be asking is if the apparent hostility in nature is compatible with a merciful ? .

    the story that ties all monotheistic religions together is based on ? intervening. In the story of Abraham. Then we have the floods in which ? obliterates all human and animal life . I'm not sure how consider murdering all life on earth with the exception of a lucky few as "intervenes very little" ? 's intervention is salient in the bible

    How the question is phrased characterized that ultimately nature is out to harm us or at the very least ? allows nature to be harmful to us. Why else would he automatically think why does it have to be so cold. Atleast that's how I see it.

    The thing is overall throughout the bible he really does only intervene very little. Of course you will remember the flood because it is a significant event but it ultimately comes down to quality vs quantity as far as him intervening.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?

    You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.

    And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.

    To your first paragraph like I said you have so little understanding and knowledge of the bible that you don't understand because you refuse to.

    I didn't say they were responsible for all I said just that it ultimately comes down to man. I said nature and Earth just are they don't approve or disapprove they just happen it's not hostile or friendly in anyway.

    Again try to shape it as much as you want and list as many reasons no matter how correct and incorrect your are it's still man. As far as you trying to pass off free will because of mentally retardation or financial difficulties it doesn't change the fact. At anytime at any mintue anyone can do anything they want wither it positively or negatively affect their life. It's as simple as that to say otherwise is to denounce all freewill

    When you keep blaming man for the natural problems of the world, such as cancer, extreme cold, disease and earthquakes, are you speaking of original sin? Because that's a terrible excuse for the world being hostile to life, especially if the ? you believe in made humans faulty to begin with. Wouldn't a "merciful" ? completely forgive humans for original sin? Earth is very hostile to life, 99% of life that has ever existed has gone extinct.

    And free will is an illusion because once again, not all choices are equal. Some people have the choice of making good choices and bad choices, while others have the choice between bad choices and more bad choices. Someone born in a nation that doesn't have health services or clean drinking water isn't gonna have the same choices in life as someone whose parents are well off and live in a stable environment.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    There are literally hundreds maybe thousands of books by theologians who have answered this question already, Who have explained what the bible says is the answer to this question....Who have given great analysis on this topic

    The earth is marred the whole of existence has been altered from what ? originally intended. Therefore suffering exists among man and in nature.

    The Bible doesn't give a good answer to my question though. It gives horrible and contradictory ones. On one hand, Jesus "forgave" our sins but on the other hand, humans and others still suffer from what Adam and Eve did. Either your ? forgave the sins or he didn't. If your Bible ? is real, it would have made a clean slate after Jesus supposedly "died for our sins". In reality, nothing changed after his death, and it's why I can't take the Bible answers seriously, too many contradictions.
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?

    You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.

    And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.

    To your first paragraph like I said you have so little understanding and knowledge of the bible that you don't understand because you refuse to.

    I didn't say they were responsible for all I said just that it ultimately comes down to man. I said nature and Earth just are they don't approve or disapprove they just happen it's not hostile or friendly in anyway.

    Again try to shape it as much as you want and list as many reasons no matter how correct and incorrect your are it's still man. As far as you trying to pass off free will because of mentally retardation or financial difficulties it doesn't change the fact. At anytime at any mintue anyone can do anything they want wither it positively or negatively affect their life. It's as simple as that to say otherwise is to denounce all freewill

    When you keep blaming man for the natural problems of the world, such as cancer, extreme cold, disease and earthquakes, are you speaking of original sin? Because that's a terrible excuse for the world being hostile to life, especially if the ? you believe in made humans faulty to begin with. Wouldn't a "merciful" ? completely forgive humans for original sin? Earth is very hostile to life, 99% of life that has ever existed has gone extinct.

    And free will is an illusion because once again, not all choices are equal. Some people have the choice of making good choices and bad choices, while others have the choice between bad choices and more bad choices. Someone born in a nation that doesn't have health services or clean drinking water isn't gonna have the same choices in life as someone whose parents are well off and live in a stable environment.

    I'm not blaming men I'm refuting your claim of nature being hostile. Diseases, exterme weather are not evil nor or they hostile. Nature cannot be hostile towards man. Diseases cannot be hostile towards men. At most they are indifferent which is why the whole premise of nature being hostile is wrong.

    Free Will
    The ability to act at one's own discretion.

    No matter what choice is put in front of it you ultimately decided how to proceed. This isn't a debate about the difference of choices or they kind of choices that different people are given just that ultimately human can make there own choice and do whatever they want to in their life. At any time in anybody life you cam choice to leave your country, to abandon your family, to start a new life, to murder or rob or be a upstanding citizen. This is undeniably and you should take a good hard look at yourself if you think otherwise
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To those who say nature isn't hostile to life..........Google how many diseases there are and how many earthquakes have affected the world. Also research how many lives volcanoes have taken throughout the years. Notice how natural these things are in the world.
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    To those who say nature isn't hostile to life..........Google how many diseases there are and how many earthquakes have affected the world. Also research how many lives volcanoes have taken throughout the years. Notice how natural these things are in the world.

    How does that make it hostile? By saying it is your saying nature is in essence opposed to or is antagonistic to life? How does that even make any sense? Especially if you are going to go the route of volcanoes and regions with exterme weather which existed before life.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?

    You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.

    And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.

    To your first paragraph like I said you have so little understanding and knowledge of the bible that you don't understand because you refuse to.

    I didn't say they were responsible for all I said just that it ultimately comes down to man. I said nature and Earth just are they don't approve or disapprove they just happen it's not hostile or friendly in anyway.

    Again try to shape it as much as you want and list as many reasons no matter how correct and incorrect your are it's still man. As far as you trying to pass off free will because of mentally retardation or financial difficulties it doesn't change the fact. At anytime at any mintue anyone can do anything they want wither it positively or negatively affect their life. It's as simple as that to say otherwise is to denounce all freewill

    When you keep blaming man for the natural problems of the world, such as cancer, extreme cold, disease and earthquakes, are you speaking of original sin? Because that's a terrible excuse for the world being hostile to life, especially if the ? you believe in made humans faulty to begin with. Wouldn't a "merciful" ? completely forgive humans for original sin? Earth is very hostile to life, 99% of life that has ever existed has gone extinct.

    And free will is an illusion because once again, not all choices are equal. Some people have the choice of making good choices and bad choices, while others have the choice between bad choices and more bad choices. Someone born in a nation that doesn't have health services or clean drinking water isn't gonna have the same choices in life as someone whose parents are well off and live in a stable environment.

    I'm not blaming men I'm refuting your claim of nature being hostile. Diseases, exterme weather are not evil nor or they hostile. Nature cannot be hostile towards man. Diseases cannot be hostile towards men. At most they are indifferent which is why the whole premise of nature being hostile is wrong.

    Free Will
    The ability to act at one's own discretion.

    No matter what choice is put in front of it you ultimately decided how to proceed. This isn't a debate about the difference of choices or they kind of choices that different people are given just that ultimately human can make there own choice and do whatever they want to in their life. At any time in anybody life you cam choice to leave your country, to abandon your family, to start a new life, to murder or rob or be a upstanding citizen. This is undeniably and you should take a good hard look at yourself if you think otherwise

    You have GOT to be kidding me, diseases and extreme weather are not hostile to life????? So when diseases and tsunamis attack and ruin a person's body, causing suffering, that's not a hostile act??

    Trying to survive and sleep in the freezing cold or rain isn't hostile on the body?? Come on man. I'm not saying mother nature is PURPOSELY trying to wipe out all life on Earth, but it damn well isn't welcoming to most of it either.

    If I rented a home to someone and purposely put land mines and trap floors in it, people would say I'm being hostile to my tenant. Let's be real here.
  • alissowack
    alissowack Members Posts: 1,930 ✭✭✭
    Like DoU said...sin.

    ? wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think ? needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and ? .
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited January 2016
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    To those who say nature isn't hostile to life..........Google how many diseases there are and how many earthquakes have affected the world. Also research how many lives volcanoes have taken throughout the years. Notice how natural these things are in the world.

    How does that make it hostile? By saying it is your saying nature is in essence opposed to or is antagonistic to life? How does that even make any sense? Especially if you are going to go the route of volcanoes and regions with exterme weather which existed before life.

    Let's go back to my original thread question: to those who believe there is a MERCIFUL ? , how come the world is so HOSTILE to life? I'm not saying nature made tornadoes and disease for the single purpose of ruining people.

    What I am saying, or asking, is HOW can there be a "merciful" or loving ? out there if so much of the world is outright hostile to people and other animals. Because the evidence of there being such a ? is not very high, based on the extremely high amount of diseases and natural disasters that make the lives of many beings, animals and humans, miserable. Let's be real, a person dealing with a parasitic worm growing out of his or her arm isn't exactly a welcoming experience.
  • kingblaze84
    kingblaze84 Members Posts: 14,288 ✭✭✭✭✭
    alissowack wrote: »
    Like DoU said...sin.

    ? wants us to see that His Kindness and Mercy is not based in the material...but the spiritual. Because of sin, we see the opposite. We think ? needs to meet our material needs in order to fill us spiritually. Mankind's hostility towards each other is because we are seeking something spiritual that we can't find in ourselves...so we lie, cheat, steal and ? .

    This is the HUGE contradiction I'm talking about with Bible believers, if your boy Jesus "forgave" our sins, then why the hell are humans and animals still suffering from the "sins" of Adam and Eve? Are you trying to say Jesus and the Bible ? never truly forgave the sins of Adam and Eve?

    And as far as mankind's hostility to each other, a lot of this was by design, because humans by nature are very aggressive and territorial. It's in our DNA, and plus humans have limited resources to deal with, because of NATURE being generally hostile to life.
  • The_Jackal
    The_Jackal Members Posts: 3,628 ✭✭✭✭✭
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    The_Jackal wrote: »
    I don't understand how you went to a Catholic school but you honestly know and understand so little of the bible. So I'll help you out. First let's rephrase your question and get a little philosophical is the world and nature truly hostile to life? No of course not nature and Earth neither approve or are hostile towards humans and animals. So what then does it come down to? Man. Why is man in a constant conflict with each other and why does the ? of the bible not interfere and correct the horrible path of destruction man is going down? The fundamental and only answer is free will.

    Let's think about it and not to judge you but when you were thinking of this thread of ? lacking mercy did you stop to think of your own action. You could have brought them to your home, you could have gave them money to go to a shelter, you could have went home ? old coats you had and gave them it but most likely you didn't. Nothing wrong with it you don't know them if they were dangerous or not maybe you were in a date with ol girl and didn't have the money and decided to be on your way. What you and others who think like this suggest is that ? directly influences are life and there by taking away are own ability to chose are action which negates truly being just or unjust in society eyes

    I stopped taking the Bible seriously in my sophomore year of Catholic high school lol, so the idea of original sin doesn't make sense to me. Didn't your ? know ahead of time humans would sin?

    You can't say man is responsible for all the world's problems, there are many problems in the world that have nothing to do with man, disease, birth defects (most of whom don't have a known cause), hostile parasites that hurt many around the world, droughts, earthquakes, etc. These are things man hasn't created, and of course you can't explain that away.

    And why is man in constant conflict with others? The biggest reasons are greed, resources and religion ironically. And as far as free will, we don't have total free will over our lives, some people have much worse choices compared to others. Think of someone born ? or mentally slow, how many options does that person have in much of the world compared to many others? Their choices are limited and many times desperate.

    To your first paragraph like I said you have so little understanding and knowledge of the bible that you don't understand because you refuse to.

    I didn't say they were responsible for all I said just that it ultimately comes down to man. I said nature and Earth just are they don't approve or disapprove they just happen it's not hostile or friendly in anyway.

    Again try to shape it as much as you want and list as many reasons no matter how correct and incorrect your are it's still man. As far as you trying to pass off free will because of mentally retardation or financial difficulties it doesn't change the fact. At anytime at any mintue anyone can do anything they want wither it positively or negatively affect their life. It's as simple as that to say otherwise is to denounce all freewill

    When you keep blaming man for the natural problems of the world, such as cancer, extreme cold, disease and earthquakes, are you speaking of original sin? Because that's a terrible excuse for the world being hostile to life, especially if the ? you believe in made humans faulty to begin with. Wouldn't a "merciful" ? completely forgive humans for original sin? Earth is very hostile to life, 99% of life that has ever existed has gone extinct.

    And free will is an illusion because once again, not all choices are equal. Some people have the choice of making good choices and bad choices, while others have the choice between bad choices and more bad choices. Someone born in a nation that doesn't have health services or clean drinking water isn't gonna have the same choices in life as someone whose parents are well off and live in a stable environment.

    I'm not blaming men I'm refuting your claim of nature being hostile. Diseases, exterme weather are not evil nor or they hostile. Nature cannot be hostile towards man. Diseases cannot be hostile towards men. At most they are indifferent which is why the whole premise of nature being hostile is wrong.

    Free Will
    The ability to act at one's own discretion.

    No matter what choice is put in front of it you ultimately decided how to proceed. This isn't a debate about the difference of choices or they kind of choices that different people are given just that ultimately human can make there own choice and do whatever they want to in their life. At any time in anybody life you cam choice to leave your country, to abandon your family, to start a new life, to murder or rob or be a upstanding citizen. This is undeniably and you should take a good hard look at yourself if you think otherwise

    You have GOT to be kidding me, diseases and extreme weather are not hostile to life????? So when diseases and tsunamis attack and ruin a person's body, causing suffering, that's not a hostile act??

    Trying to survive and sleep in the freezing cold or rain isn't hostile on the body?? Come on man. I'm not saying mother nature is PURPOSELY trying to wipe out all life on Earth, but it damn well isn't welcoming to most of it either.

    If I rented a home to someone and purposely put land mines and trap floors in it, people would say I'm being hostile to my tenant. Let's be real here.

    What your saying now is completly different from what you said earlier

    First you said why is the world and nature so hostile

    I said it's not it's indifferent to everything on the planet.

    Now your saying why is nature so hostile to our bodies. You always have to move the goalposts smh.

    But to counter this majority of animals survive in exterme conditions and men have and continue to live in exterme conditions. Man continues to live longer and longer with the advancement of medicine to the point it might become a determinate. So how exactly is the world this dark merciless place you imagine it as

  • zzombie
    zzombie Members Posts: 11,280 ✭✭✭✭✭
    zzombie wrote: »
    There are literally hundreds maybe thousands of books by theologians who have answered this question already, Who have explained what the bible says is the answer to this question....Who have given great analysis on this topic

    The earth is marred the whole of existence has been altered from what ? originally intended. Therefore suffering exists among man and in nature.

    The Bible doesn't give a good answer to my question though. It gives horrible and contradictory ones. On one hand, Jesus "forgave" our sins but on the other hand, humans and others still suffer from what Adam and Eve did. Either your ? forgave the sins or he didn't. If your Bible ? is real, it would have made a clean slate after Jesus supposedly "died for our sins". In reality, nothing changed after his death, and it's why I can't take the Bible answers seriously, too many contradictions.

    If my son breaks the tv I can forgive him but the tv is still broken. Christ opened a door to save your soul but your ass is still here it's not until he returns that the world will be different.