Lebron will retire with 4 rings , that trumps kobes 5 rings
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Nah bruh. There is some distance between the two
As great a player as Pippen was, he always had Jordan while sustaining that level of play.
Imagine Pip as your #1 option...
How many rings would that team have?
Hell - How many births would they have in the Conference Finals?
A team built around pippen is like a team built around Lebron -
If he doesn't get one this year then he won't win a championship again
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PanchoYoSancho wrote: »It's clearly Kobe>>>>>Scottie
I'm not debating that, but Kobe played the majority of his career as 1st option Scottie was the #1 option once in his career and lead his team in points, assists and steals and was 2nd in rebounds and blocks. He lead his team to 55 wins and was a controversial call away from making it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Scottie was averaging over 20 PPG whilst being the second option to a guy averaging over 30 points and taking over 23 shots a game.
Nobody ever wants to give Scottie his dues just cause he played with the GOAT. Kobe top 15 all time. Scottie one of the greatest defenders all time and top 30 all time IMO
Ok. We actually agree here.
Although I don't know if Pippen cracks my top 30 All time he is severely underrated in most circles.
MJ didn't win them chips on his own.
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Nah bruh. There is some distance between the two
As great a player as Pippen was, he always had Jordan while sustaining that level of play.
Imagine Pip as your #1 option...
How many rings would that team have?
Hell - How many births would they have in the Conference Finals?
You mean like in 1994 when entire Bulls squad's defensive rating and shooting percentage went up, the Bulls only lost 2 more games than the year before, and Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting only to Hakeem and David Robinson and was the All Star game MVP? If not for that awful call that cost the Bulls game 5 in the series against the Knicks, Pippen probably would have taken the Bulls all the way to a title.
Yes Pippen only sustained his great level of play with Jordan around... Like when he averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals against the Lakers in the 2000 Western Conference Finals at age 34...
I think some people here are seriously underrating Scottie Pippen.
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So we really gon sit here and act like Kobe had an all time roster between 08-10 outside of Pau? They were easily greater as a whole then the sum of there parts. As a refresher those teams consisted of:
Shannon Brown
Ariza
Walton
Sasha
Mbenga
Kwame
Brian Cook
Mihm
Turiaf
Farmar
Powell
Morrison
Radmanovic
Kobe, MJ and maybe Bron the only players that get judged for having quality players on there squad. So the ? what Kobe played with Shaq, Shaq played with that ? too. Yes MJ benefited from Pippen but he damn sure benefited from MJ too.
Nobody says "well if Magic didn't have Kareem and Worthy they wouldn't have ever won."
The 80s Celtics was stacked nobody puts an asterik by their wins.
Stop that ? -
Breezy_Kilroy wrote: »So we really gon sit here and act like Kobe had an all time roster between 08-10 outside of Pau? They were easily greater as a whole then the sum of there parts. As a refresher those teams consisted of:
Shannon Brown
Ariza
Walton
Sasha
Mbenga
Kwame
Brian Cook
Mihm
Turiaf
Farmar
Powell
Morrison
Radmanovic
Kobe, MJ and maybe Bron the only players that get judged for having quality players on there squad. So the ? what Kobe played with Shaq, Shaq played with that ? too. Yes MJ benefited from Pippen but he damn sure benefited from MJ too.
Nobody says "well if Magic didn't have Kareem and Worthy they wouldn't have ever won."
The 80s Celtics was stacked nobody puts an asterik by their wins.
Stop that ?
they dont hear you -
Breezy_Kilroy wrote: »So we really gon sit here and act like Kobe had an all time roster between 08-10 outside of Pau? They were easily greater as a whole then the sum of there parts. As a refresher those teams consisted of:
Shannon Brown
Ariza
Walton
Sasha
Mbenga
Kwame
Brian Cook
Mihm
Turiaf
Farmar
Powell
Morrison
Radmanovic
Kobe, MJ and maybe Bron the only players that get judged for having quality players on there squad. So the ? what Kobe played with Shaq, Shaq played with that ? too. Yes MJ benefited from Pippen but he damn sure benefited from MJ too.
Nobody says "well if Magic didn't have Kareem and Worthy they wouldn't have ever won."
The 80s Celtics was stacked nobody puts an asterik by their wins.
Stop that ?
Man FOH... Mbenga was a BEAST! Don't you ever come around disrespeckin' him like that- that's my muthafuckin' DJ right there... Got the nerve to act like the BIG CONGO wasn't aiding Kobe major dropping that 2.7 ppg with ease bruh... C'mon man!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1rZBxn3Zx8
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Breezy_Kilroy wrote: »So we really gon sit here and act like Kobe had an all time roster between 08-10 outside of Pau? They were easily greater as a whole then the sum of there parts. As a refresher those teams consisted of:
Shannon Brown
Ariza
Walton
Sasha
Mbenga
Kwame
Brian Cook
Mihm
Turiaf
Farmar
Powell
Morrison
Radmanovic
Kobe, MJ and maybe Bron the only players that get judged for having quality players on there squad. So the ? what Kobe played with Shaq, Shaq played with that ? too. Yes MJ benefited from Pippen but he damn sure benefited from MJ too.
Nobody says "well if Magic didn't have Kareem and Worthy they wouldn't have ever won."
The 80s Celtics was stacked nobody puts an asterik by their wins.
Stop that ?
Yeah Kareem, Magic and the rest of the Showtime Lakers had a squad in the 80s, but the Celtics had an all-star line up too. The 80s was one of the few decades when you had two GOAT teams playing each other back to back in the championships.
There was an 8 year span between 1980-1988 where either the Celtics or the Lakers won 8 out of 9 times (the 76ers won in 83).
My point is that while Kobe might have played with Shaq, or Jordan played with Pippen, who did they play against ? I don't think their competition was equal to the Celtics vs Lakers rivalry.
The Celtics had Bird, Parish, McHale, also Dennis Johnson, Daddy Ainge, M.L. Carr, even Bill Walton was on the 86 Celtics.
They could have kept it up but unfortunately their 1986 draft pick ? Bias died. -
the_focused_one wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »PanchoYoSancho wrote: »
They did have elite defenses tho. As did the 07 Cavs.knightryder wrote: »? said lebron carried a bunch of bums to the finals as if no other players in the nba
aint do the same........
didnt allen iverson carried a bunch of bums to the finals in 2001
didnt jason kidd not carried a bunch of bums to the finals in 2002 and 2003
Dont compare what lebron did in the east to what kobe did in the west.......its
a well known fact that kobe deals with tougher competition, plus career wise
kobe took on juggernauts through his career ...
Just speaks to how trash the East was from 2001-2007. The Pistons and Heat were the only teams worth a damn during that whole era.
Was just gonna tell the The Focus one that but you beat me to it.
Like I don't already know. LoL. Still doesn't brush off what LeBron did and with that roster no less.
Also, Kobe has NEVER singlehandedly carried a team. EVER. Kobe and Mike have always had BIG 3s and a solid bench when they've won their championships PLUS Phil Jackson.
Hypothetically speaking, give LeBron a team with say Chris Paul, Durant, AND Popovich and watch him steamroll the West. 7 rings would attainable if you gave LeBron a supporting cast like Kobe or MJ had.
BTW, I'm not homer. This is all coming from a Kings fan... *prepares the roast shield*
Kobe never caried a team?
(BTW that Kings fan ? explains your position alot. Yall know yall hate anything laker related but ima still entertain this)
For the bolded He put the Lakers up 3-1 in a playoff series where they shoulda got sweep. ? put a very high powered Suns team in some real danger and coulda been the third or forth biggest upset in a series in playoff history and you know who he was running with when the Lakes snuck in the back door of the playoffs that year? Kwame Brown Cris Mims and Lamar Odom. I would hardly call that a big 3. If he was in the eastern conference with that trash ass roster that year he WOULDA been able to get to ECF atleast like the rest of them cats yall glorify.
No, being a Kings fan doesn't explain anything. For example, it doesn't explain the fact that Kobe had Shaq, Harper, Fisher, Grant, Horry, Fox, Shaw, Payton, Malone, Odom, and Gasol for championship runs while Lebron James has had Wade, Bosh, Allen, Love and Kyrie- and for all intents and purposes the last two weren't present for the Finals last year.
And no, Kobe would not have carried that 06 team in the East because as wack as the East was, you still had to PASS the ball and get past the defenses. That Suns squad was 16th in the league in defense, and while Kobe could have gotten the Lakers past the Wizards in the Eastern First Round, I highly doubt the Lakers would have taken the Pistons, with their 5th ranked defense, to 7 games purely on the Kobe show, with no passing or ball movement.
LeBron has done more with less.
Wade and Bosh were better than Harper, Fox, Fisher, and a ? washed Payton and Malone. They were better than all his teammates not named Shaq (nice try but Im not lettin that ? fly, I aint just start watchin B Ball).
and you know damn well why I said being a Kings fan explained the stance, dont ? sit here and play.
And I strongly disagree with Kobe not being able to come outta the east. Lol @ you talking bout he'd have to pass. Iverson got to the finals and it sure as hell wasn't because he passed the ball. Wade dominated the Mavs in the finals too and it was because he kept lighting them guys up too. Foh man....and dont be a prisoner of the 2016 moment, we talking about knee deep in Kobe's prime years 06 to 09 where he was cookin everybody! You said the Suns were 16th in D? I dont know why you brought that up, I never said they ever stopped him. They stopped all the bums around him and Kobe lit them up until game 7 where he had another agenda because of the media but back east, no teams was good enough as a whole offensively to offset What Kobe was gonna do like the Suns were. If San Antonio wasnt such a match up problem for the Suns Dantoni and them guys woulda won multiple Chips so it aint like Kobe lost to a squad of pootbutts.
1. Payton and Malone were not washed up. Check the stats playboi. Payton and Malone averaged 15 and 13pts a game with Kobe and Shaq still getting theirs. And Payton put up 1100 points while Malone only played half the season and still put up 550. You are also neglecting the contribution that Harper, Fox, and Fisher made IN ADDITION to having SHAQ. You're comparing a Heat squad that had nothing past their big 3 (big 4 for 2 seasons with Allen) to a Laker squad that was stacked. Don't act like they were bench warmers broski.
2. I didn't realize this conversation was about the 02 Western Conference Finals. How did that happen?
3. Iverson did what he did in 2001. That's completely irrelevant to the conversation.
4. Wade did dominate- he also got a bunch of phantom calls that gave him a ton of extra free throws. Had it not been for the refs at the end of game 4, Dallas goes up 3-1 and the series would have been essentially over.
5. You don't know why I brought up the Suns defensive rating because comprehension is hard sometimes- I get it. Kobe did what he did to a team that was 16th in the league in D and played up tempo basketball. He could have gotten away with that against the Wizards maybe, but Kobe would not be cookin' anybody in Detroit- they were 5th in the league in defense and would have made sure that Kobe was limited in his attack. Even if Kobe stayed Kobe, he wasn't stretching that series to a game 7.
Alright man ima ? with your post points like this
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Those guys were infact washed up. Go look at their stats with the other team and go look up their stats with the Lakers. That's what happens when you get washed you get injury prone and you cant tell me nothing about Malone especially because he use to be my favorite player back in his prime. I was following the Jazz closely and rooted for them whenever they wasnt playing the Lakers so if anybody could see the difference in his game it was me
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You opened them can of worms Kings Fan
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It's relevant because Lebron aint the only player that can take a eastern conference team where he's the only star and the rest are journeymen and scrubs and get to the finals. Iverson put a garbage team on his back and got to the finals. Bron can do it too but if Kobe was in his prime back east he could also do it. Neither of the 3 could put trash on their back and come out the West tho because it was always some power house team like the mid 90's Rockets, Trail blazers, (mid 90's and 2000's wit Brandon Roy and them guys) Utah Jazz from the Malone era to when D Will and ? where at their best, Pop and the Spurs were still doing back then what they doing now, Dantonio's Phoenix Suns who could whoop everybody except the Spurs and even YOUR KINGS. You needed more than a one man show to overcome any of those squads in the playoffs
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Im inclined to agree with you there where the refs helped out. But they also did that same exact thing wit LeBron especially in 2013 in the Eastern Conference finals when the Heat beat the Celtics. That was ridiculous amounts of superstar phantom calls for Bronny
5
Listen man ima answer this one with a question....Lebron scored 25 straight points against them guys in Game 5 which was until this year the last time the Pistons was ever worth a ? . You think Kobe in his prime(06 Bryant) that had a way better jumper couldn't do that same thing?
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the_focused_one wrote: »Nah bruh. There is some distance between the two
As great a player as Pippen was, he always had Jordan while sustaining that level of play.
Imagine Pip as your #1 option...
How many rings would that team have?
Hell - How many births would they have in the Conference Finals?
You mean like in 1994 when entire Bulls squad's defensive rating and shooting percentage went up, the Bulls only lost 2 more games than the year before, and Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting only to Hakeem and David Robinson and was the All Star game MVP? If not for that awful call that cost the Bulls game 5 in the series against the Knicks, Pippen probably would have taken the Bulls all the way to a title.
Yes Pippen only sustained his great level of play with Jordan around... Like when he averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals against the Lakers in the 2000 Western Conference Finals at age 34...
I think some people here are seriously underrating Scottie Pippen.
1. @ the bolded- Very nice Regular Season Stats. . Maybe you have a point.
Why don't we round up all the players who led good, well rounded teams to 50+ Wins, finished 3rd in MVP voting, and ended their season in an early round of the playoffs ... And place them ABOVE Kobe Bryant and next to Michael Jordan on the All Time Players list ... That makes sense.
Next up for consideration- Jermaine O'neal, Alonzo Mourning and Carmello Anthony.
Are you beginning to see that there are levels to this ? .
2. So Pippens Bulls would have won the title, huh? If it wasn't for that one, little, pesky missed call from the Refs... How convenient for your Narrative.
For one, game 5 is not game 7. What about those unstoppable Bulls in the other games in that series??? But I digress...
Before we pencil them In for the championship, perhaps we take a look at their "competition" past the second round ... You know, just for kicks
The Pacers had a guy named Reggie Miller in his prime. They took the Knicks to 7, too.
That guy was alright...
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LDSF8otJH8Y
That Rockets team was probably trash tho, right?
No scoring on the peremeter whatsoever, and who was their best player again?
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXIRsyM-gk
Yeah, you're right - it would have been a cakewalk for the Legendary Scottie Pippen and his Bulls.
3. Pip was a great player... A HOFamer. I saw him with the Bulls. With the Rockets and Blazers too. Dude has always been underrated as a ? - that's disrespectful to how good of a player he was.
But it's more disrespectful to put him above the likes of Kobe or anywhere near Michael Jordan on the All time List.
Cut that ? out.
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the_focused_one wrote: »Nah bruh. There is some distance between the two
As great a player as Pippen was, he always had Jordan while sustaining that level of play.
Imagine Pip as your #1 option...
How many rings would that team have?
Hell - How many births would they have in the Conference Finals?
You mean like in 1994 when entire Bulls squad's defensive rating and shooting percentage went up, the Bulls only lost 2 more games than the year before, and Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting only to Hakeem and David Robinson and was the All Star game MVP? If not for that awful call that cost the Bulls game 5 in the series against the Knicks, Pippen probably would have taken the Bulls all the way to a title.
Yes Pippen only sustained his great level of play with Jordan around... Like when he averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals against the Lakers in the 2000 Western Conference Finals at age 34...
I think some people here are seriously underrating Scottie Pippen.
1. @ the bolded- Very nice Regular Season Stats. . Maybe you have a point.
Why don't we round up all the players who led good, well rounded teams to 50+ Wins, finished 3rd in MVP voting, and ended their season in an early round of the playoffs ... And place them ABOVE Kobe Bryant and next to Michael Jordan on the All Time Players list ... That makes sense.
Next up for consideration- Jermaine O'neal, Alonzo Mourning and Carmello Anthony.
Are you beginning to see that there are levels to this ? .
2. So Pippens Bulls would have won the title, huh? If it wasn't for that one, little, pesky missed call from the Refs... How convenient for your Narrative.
For one, game 5 is not game 7. What about those unstoppable Bulls in the other games in that series??? But I digress...
Before we pencil them In for the championship, perhaps we take a look at their "competition" past the second round ... You know, just for kicks
The Pacers had a guy named Reggie Miller in his prime. They took the Knicks to 7, too.
That guy was alright...http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=LDSF8otJH8Y
That Rockets team was probably trash tho, right?
No scoring on the peremeter whatsoever, and who was their best player again?http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=CfXIRsyM-gk
Yeah, you're right - it would have been a cakewalk for the Legendary Scottie Pippen and his Bulls.
3. Pip was a great player... A HOFamer. I saw him with the Bulls. With the Rockets and Blazers too. Dude has always been underrated as a ? - that's disrespectful to how good of a player he was.
But it's more disrespectful to put him above the likes of Kobe or anywhere near Michael Jordan on the All time List.
Cut that ? out.
Your giant rebuttal missed the entire point of my post... SMH... -
Meh. Let's be clear, then... What was your point?
Because it was in response to my post rebutting the statement that Pippen was better than Kobe Bryant. -
Meh. Let's be clear, then... What was your point?
Because it was in response to my post rebutting the statement that Pippen was better than Kobe Bryant.
My point was that Pippen is crazy underrated and that your team wasn't doomed with him as your leader.
I never said he was better than Kobe. -
PanchoYoSancho wrote: »
And Kobe could've lost in 2000 when he shot 36.7% and averaged 15.6 points in the FinalsPanchoYoSancho wrote: »Biggest difference between Kobe and Lebron is Kobe got drafted and traded to the premier NBA franchise who had the best player in basketball in his prime waiting for him. LeBron got drafted by the worst team in basketball in a city where no big name free agents wanted to come to or stay in (? ).
Kobe had Phil Jackson. LeBron had Mike Brown.
Kobe had Shaq. LeBron had Zydrunas Ilgauskas.
Kobe had Gasol. LeBron had Mo Williams.
I'm not gonna bring up the Cavs going to the Finals in 07 cause the East was garbage, but Kobe had a team full of role players and the best he ever carried em to was 45 wins. LeBron had a team full of role players and carried em to 66 and 62 win seasons. You can say Cleveland had better role players and the East was weak, but the Cavs overachieved and had the best record in basketball over those 2 years. LeBron went to Miami, where free agents actually want to play, and won 2 rings in 4 years with the level of talent around him Kobe had for most of his career and might've won 3 in 5 if he had Love/Kyrie in last year's Finals.
Kobe's a legend and got the best out of his teams, but he was constantly put in situations to succeed where Lebron for the first half of his career was put in situations to fail.
For the bolded he also coulda lost both finals he won if Harden dont choke and Jesus Shuttlesworth miss that 3 pointer. And when you said Kobe only won 45 games that year all the west teams he had to play alteast 4 times each. Lebron got to play those same teams only twice (must be nice) a year so if you woulda traded Lebron for Kobe in 05-06 and had James playing wit smush, Cris Mims, and Slava Medvedenko or some ? , I bet you Bron only win 45 too and Kobe go to the finals wit Varajo and Mo Williams and them guys to atleast ECF.
Or in 2002 if Sacramento didnt get ? by the refs in Game 6. How dare Mike Bibby hit Kobe's elbow with his face?
Or in 2010 if the Celtics had Kendrick Perkins
I dont actually believe the last one, but we're talking coulda/woulda. It goes both ways, but I'll give Kobe credit for one thing. Even when he missed, he kept shooting and didn't ? out like Lebron did against Dallas.
@PanchoYoSancho
Dawg, I remember watchin' that ? when it happened and being COMPLETELY in awe of how the refs watched that ? happen and they just looked @ Bibby like "Tuff break nikka!! Now get yo punk ass up so we can keep allowin' yall this "The Longest Yard" treatment!" lol
? was one of the most blatant fixes I've witnessed in sports history!
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*Looks at thread title, clicks on thread* hahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahaha *leaves thread*
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international wrote: »*Looks at thread title, clicks on thread* hahahahahaahahahahahaahahahahaahahahahahahaha *leaves thread*
I know. It's funny cuz LeBron only needs to win one with Cleveland to be the GOAT. Kobe is not in the conversation hahaha. -
Maths lost...
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Maths lost...
Logic lost when rings (a team accomplishment) became the standard for a player's individual legacy.
Math lost when Jordan's 6 rings became the standard when Bill Russell has 11.
Advocates for LeBron are just trying to bring balance back to the force young padawan. -
One chip in Cleveland for Lebron equals about 5 chips for Cleveland watch
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One chip in Cleveland for Lebron equals about 5 chips for Cleveland watch
I chip in Cleveland is equal to 5 chips in Basketball, 1 World Series, and 2 Superbowls and the GOAT title. -
Bringing a ring to Cleveland might have some people putting him #3 or maybe even #2, but no one's gonna be foolish enough to put him #1.
And teenagers who didnt start watching the NBA til 5 years ago dont count. -
Inglewood_B wrote: »^^^^^^^^"Dumb ? Said in the Cheapseats" candidate
How the ? is that dumb? I watched Mike his whole career as well as kobe's.
And the same ? y'all praise Kobe for. Y'all hate Mike for.
So like I said said. ? that love Kobe never seen Mike play. -
the_focused_one wrote: »Nah bruh. There is some distance between the two
As great a player as Pippen was, he always had Jordan while sustaining that level of play.
Imagine Pip as your #1 option...
How many rings would that team have?
Hell - How many births would they have in the Conference Finals?
You mean like in 1994 when entire Bulls squad's defensive rating and shooting percentage went up, the Bulls only lost 2 more games than the year before, and Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting only to Hakeem and David Robinson and was the All Star game MVP? If not for that awful call that cost the Bulls game 5 in the series against the Knicks, Pippen probably would have taken the Bulls all the way to a title.
Yes Pippen only sustained his great level of play with Jordan around... Like when he averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals against the Lakers in the 2000 Western Conference Finals at age 34...
I think some people here are seriously underrating Scottie Pippen.
Yo homie you talking to young ? on this board. ? is just like hip hop. If they didn't witness it on their own accord, the ? never happened.
Kobe is a much greater scorer than Pippen that's a fact. But when you talk about all around ball skills Pippen ? on Kobe and that's a fact.
It's a reason why he was ranked one of the top 50 players of all time.
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I wouldn't say, "Pippen's all around ball skills ? on Kobe".
But Scottie Pippen used to guard Michael Jordan every day in practice. So after years of guarding Michael Jordan he was probably impossible to beat on offense.
Just imagine him in practice guarding Jordan and then practice is over and he had to guard somebody like Penny Hardaway or Grant Hill. -
the_focused_one wrote: »
This needs explanation.
