Lebron will retire with 4 rings , that trumps kobes 5 rings
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? ? however.. it will be made true....
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I wouldn't say, "Pippen's all around ball skills ? on Kobe".
But Scottie Pippen used to guard Michael Jordan every day in practice. So after years of guarding Michael Jordan he was probably impossible to beat on offense.
Just imagine him in practice guarding Jordan and then practice is over and he had to guard somebody like Penny Hardaway or Grant Hill.
See this is where the dickriding goes too far.? love to overrate pippen wit this nostalgia ?
HE DID penny and grant hill routinely use to bust pippens ass.For this lockdown elite defender label who are the people he locked down? Name em please and this was in the hand check era you could actually hold jerseys and grab dudes.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEwfI2-QlM
Penny wit 38 points in the ecf primary defender pip.Posts ups,off the dribble,jumper in his face etc All that dog
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP16tRyYnlU
Grant Hill 37 points(he was giving mike the biz too) transition,post ups,splashing in pippens face and they had plenty of games like this.Mashburn dropped 50 on pippen you got dudes talking bout pippen is better than wade or kobe all around? lollll nostalgic dickriders.
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Yeah, Penny & Grant Hill use to own Pippen
Throwback video, when you got Steve Snapper Jones on it. -
the_focused_one wrote: »
This needs explanation.
Bruh have you not watched that 'Believeland' 30 for 30, that ? was ? depressing, just bringing something to that sad sad place they call 'The Land' would propel his legacy. -
Tommy bilfiger wrote: »I wouldn't say, "Pippen's all around ball skills ? on Kobe".
But Scottie Pippen used to guard Michael Jordan every day in practice. So after years of guarding Michael Jordan he was probably impossible to beat on offense.
Just imagine him in practice guarding Jordan and then practice is over and he had to guard somebody like Penny Hardaway or Grant Hill.
See this is where the dickriding goes too far.? love to overrate pippen wit this nostalgia ?
HE DID penny and grant hill routinely use to bust pippens ass.For this lockdown elite defender label who are the people he locked down? Name em please and this was in the hand check era you could actually hold jerseys and grab dudes.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEwfI2-QlM
Penny wit 38 points in the ecf primary defender pip.Posts ups,off the dribble,jumper in his face etc All that doghttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BP16tRyYnlU
Grant Hill 37 points(he was giving mike the biz too) transition,post ups,splashing in pippens face and they had plenty of games like this.Mashburn dropped 50 on pippen you got dudes talking bout pippen is better than wade or kobe all around? lollll nostalgic dickriders.
Lol
This might be the best post you ever made. -
Louis Devinear wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »Nah bruh. There is some distance between the two
As great a player as Pippen was, he always had Jordan while sustaining that level of play.
Imagine Pip as your #1 option...
How many rings would that team have?
Hell - How many births would they have in the Conference Finals?
You mean like in 1994 when entire Bulls squad's defensive rating and shooting percentage went up, the Bulls only lost 2 more games than the year before, and Pippen was 3rd in MVP voting only to Hakeem and David Robinson and was the All Star game MVP? If not for that awful call that cost the Bulls game 5 in the series against the Knicks, Pippen probably would have taken the Bulls all the way to a title.
Yes Pippen only sustained his great level of play with Jordan around... Like when he averaged 15 points, 9 rebounds, 4 assists and 3 steals against the Lakers in the 2000 Western Conference Finals at age 34...
I think some people here are seriously underrating Scottie Pippen.
Yo homie you talking to young ? on this board. ? is just like hip hop. If they didn't witness it on their own accord, the ? never happened.
Kobe is a much greater scorer than Pippen that's a fact. But when you talk about all around ball skills Pippen ? on Kobe and that's a fact.
It's a reason why he was ranked one of the top 50 players of all time.
This post is on some 100%. However, the bold isn't necessarily true because these same young heads grew up with SpaceJam and YouTube and think Jordan is ? and can't accept anyone else even being in the conversation.
These same dudes that talk about Kendrick being on some Top 5 ? because it's who they are witnessing first hand are the same dudes that will ? on LeBron, no matter the greatness he displays RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEIR ? EYES.
One of my homies in real life said Westbrook is the best player in the league and said LeBron is an AVERAGE shooter, AVERAGE rebounder, AVERAGE passer, and AVERAGE defender in the same sentence.
LeBron was 25/7/7 on 52% from the floor. Russell was 23/8/10 on 45% from the floor. They are damn near the same player, but LeBron is more efficient, can guard 1 thru 5, and is 6'8, 260lbs and still almost as fast as Westbrook- all while playing FORWARD.
These younglings don't get it. SMH.
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PanchoYoSancho wrote: »It's clearly Kobe>>>>>Scottie
I'm not debating that, but Kobe played the majority of his career as 1st option Scottie was the #1 option once in his career and lead his team in points, assists and steals and was 2nd in rebounds and blocks. He lead his team to 55 wins and was a controversial call away from making it to the Eastern Conference Finals. Scottie was averaging over 20 PPG whilst being the second option to a guy averaging over 30 points and taking over 23 shots a game.
Nobody ever wants to give Scottie his dues just cause he played with the GOAT. Kobe top 15 all time. Scottie one of the greatest defenders all time and top 30 all time IMO
Alot of people don't want to give Scottie props because most put to much stock into scoring. Scottie was a well rounded player but never a super high scoring player so a lot of folks try to down play how great he was. It's sad in my opinion and shows how little knowledge and perspective a lot folks have about the sport. -
dallas' 4 eva wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »
This needs explanation.
Bruh have you not watched that 'Believeland' 30 for 30, that ? was ? depressing, just bringing something to that sad sad place they call 'The Land' would propel his legacy.
This has nothing to do with basketball.
I am not treating him like he has 7 rings when he has 3, because of the city he happened to be playing for when he won it.
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dallas' 4 eva wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »
This needs explanation.
Bruh have you not watched that 'Believeland' 30 for 30, that ? was ? depressing, just bringing something to that sad sad place they call 'The Land' would propel his legacy.
This has nothing to do with basketball.
I am not treating him like he has 7 rings when he has 3, because of the city he happened to be playing for when he won it.
1. It's not about getting 7 rings, and I hope you are not implying he needs 7 rings to be the GOAT. Ring Logic is for the dimly lit. Rings are a team accomplishment. I was simply saying that to Cleveland, just winning one chip would = dynasty to them. It was an arbitrary number.
2. Bringing a chip to Cleveland would not only break a giant curse on the city, but LeBron would be winning a championship in a tiny market (that doesn't have world appeal like San Antonio) that literally no one ever wants to play for.
3. LeBron James has never had a core or a supporting cast anywhere near the great teams of all time. Doing it this year or next year with this cast would only further cement his status as the GOAT to those who value the all around game and can see through the mainstream propaganda. -
For one, that rationale is emotional - not factual.
And that small market argument is garbage in 2016.
-San Antonio
-OKC
-Cleveland
-Memphis last 5 years
-Minnesota next 10 years
-Portland etc
Now look at:
-LA Lakers
-New York
-Washinton DC
-Philly
-Brooklyn
-Detroit
But... But ... They're big markets. Who tf cares?
It's about the players, the coaching, and the culture. It doesent matter how you accumulate the aforementioned.
And once you have them, how does the difficulty acquiring them factor into the greatness of those players / that team???the_focused_one wrote: »dallas' 4 eva wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »
This needs explanation.
Bruh have you not watched that 'Believeland' 30 for 30, that ? was ? depressing, just bringing something to that sad sad place they call 'The Land' would propel his legacy.
This has nothing to do with basketball.
I am not treating him like he has 7 rings when he has 3, because of the city he happened to be playing for when he won it.
3. LeBron James has never had a core or a supporting cast anywhere near the great teams of all time. Doing it this year or next year with this cast would only further cement his status as the GOAT to those who value the all around game and can see through the mainstream propaganda.
So are we going to pretend like Lebron's Heat Teams weren't some of the most talented teams in the entire league?
And this year's Cavs team is scrap metal, huh?
And who ever said you have to have one of the greatest teams of all time to win a championship?
Doing so does not make you the GOAT.
1990 Pistons
2010 Lakers
1977 Blazers
2003 Spurs
2004 Pistons
You giving Bill Walton and Chauncey Billups the same credit you give Lebron?
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And I like Lebron.
He is underrated and endures some unwarranted hate.
But this "He did it for the city" argument is BS and has no bearing on how great a basketball player is.
Lore and nostalgia - fine.
All time greatness - nah. -
Lebrons heat teams outside the big 3 were far from spectacular
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For one, that rationale is emotional - not factual.
And that small market argument is garbage in 2016.
-San Antonio
-OKC
-Cleveland
-Memphis last 5 years
-Minnesota next 10 years
-Portland etc
Now look at:
-LA Lakers
-New York
-Washinton DC
-Philly
-Brooklyn
-Detroit
But... But ... They're big markets. Who tf cares?
It's about the players, the coaching, and the culture. It doesent matter how you accumulate the aforementioned.
And once you have them, how does the difficulty acquiring them factor into the greatness of those players / that team???the_focused_one wrote: »dallas' 4 eva wrote: »the_focused_one wrote: »
This needs explanation.
Bruh have you not watched that 'Believeland' 30 for 30, that ? was ? depressing, just bringing something to that sad sad place they call 'The Land' would propel his legacy.
This has nothing to do with basketball.
I am not treating him like he has 7 rings when he has 3, because of the city he happened to be playing for when he won it.
3. LeBron James has never had a core or a supporting cast anywhere near the great teams of all time. Doing it this year or next year with this cast would only further cement his status as the GOAT to those who value the all around game and can see through the mainstream propaganda.
So are we going to pretend like Lebron's Heat Teams weren't some of the most talented teams in the entire league?
And this year's Cavs team is scrap metal, huh?
And who ever said you have to have one of the greatest teams of all time to win a championship?
Doing so does not make you the GOAT.
1990 Pistons
2010 Lakers
1977 Blazers
2003 Spurs
2004 Pistons
You giving Bill Walton and Chauncey Billups the same credit you give Lebron?
I don't like/agree with none of your argument -
Lebrons heat teams outside the big 3 were far from spectacular
You don't need spectacular talent up and down a roster to win an NBA championship.
Several others have won with less talent than Lebron's Heat. -
For one, that rationale is emotional - not factual.
And that small market argument is garbage in 2016.
-San Antonio
-OKC
-Cleveland
-Memphis last 5 years
-Minnesota next 10 years
-Portland etc
San Antonio is the only one with any hardware on that list from recent memory.Now look at:
-LA Lakers
-New York
-Washinton DC
-Philly
-Brooklyn
-Detroit
But... But ... They're big markets. Who tf cares?
Yeah, you conveniently forgot Chicago and Boston.
Between the Lakers, Pistons, Bulls, 76ers and Celtics, the big markets have WON 24 of the last 36 NBA championships since 1980. Take out Philly and 4 Big Market teams have won 23 of the last 36 NBA championships.
LeBron has never had all 3. Even now in Cleveland he still doesn't. That's part of what a lot of people like about LeBron that many haters can't understand. LeBron has yet to win with the formula all the other GOAT players have had.It's about the players, the coaching, and the culture. It doesent matter how you accumulate the aforementioned.
And once you have them, how does the difficulty acquiring them factor into the greatness of those players / that team???the_focused_one wrote: »
3. LeBron James has never had a core or a supporting cast anywhere near the great teams of all time. Doing it this year or next year with this cast would only further cement his status as the GOAT to those who value the all around game and can see through the mainstream propaganda.
So are we going to pretend like Lebron's Heat Teams weren't some of the most talented teams in the entire league?
And this year's Cavs team is scrap metal, huh?
LeBron's Heat teams were not that great outside of the Big 3- only in 2013 with Ray Allen and when all healthy were they special, and even then they weren't that deep. This Cavs team is better overall, but you also saw what happened when LeBron lost Love and then Kyrie for the Finals.
The man turned Hercules and went 36/13/9 for the Finals. He nearly averaged a triple double for the Finals, but did anyone care? No, he just got hated on for going 2-4...And who ever said you have to have one of the greatest teams of all time to win a championship?
Doing so does not make you the GOAT.
1990 Pistons
2010 Lakers
1977 Blazers
2003 Spurs
2004 Pistons
No one said you have to have an All-Time team to win a championship. But in general, for winning chips, and for boosting your legacy with the Ring Logic crowd, including ESPN, it sure does help to have that, which LeBron has never had yet still gets ripped for being 2-4 in the Finals.You giving Bill Walton and Chauncey Billups the same credit you give Lebron?
Yes, Bill Walton gets a ton of credit, and so does Chauncey. But neither is in the GOAT conversation like LeBron is, so they are irrelevant to the thread.
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Kobe won two rings with Gasol and MWP. But to you he's not even in the conversation for GOAT.
How do those teams compare to Lebron's Heat?
And was it the Big Markets that won all those titles or was it
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
KAJ
Magic
Worthy
Bird
Duncan
Parker
Ginobli
Garnett
Pierce
Ray Allen
Kobe
Shaq
Lebron
And Wade Etc?
If they played for different teams, would they magically not be as good?
And we are talking about today's Cavaliers, we are talking about Market size relative to today's NBA ... Not 37 years ago.
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BTW, Anyone that knows basketball understands that what Lerbon accomplished last Finals was phenomenal.
Not material to this debate. -
Kobe won two rings with Gasol and MWP. But to you he's not even in the conversation for GOAT.
How do those teams compare to Lebron's Heat?
And was it the Big Markets that won all those titles or was it
Michael Jordan
Scottie Pippen
KAJ
Magic
Worthy
Bird
Duncan
Parker
Ginobli
Kobe
Shaq
Lebron
And Wade Etc?
And we are talking about today's Cavaliers, we are talking about Market size relative to today's NBA ... Not 37 years ago.
I'm not saying there's causation between Big Market teams and winning, but there is definitely a HIGH CORRELATION between Big Market teams and winning. Also, today's small market teams have yet to actually win anything outside of the Spurs. The Warriors are not a traditional power, but they are a Big Market team as well.BTW, Anyone that knows basketball understands that what Lebron accomplished last Finals was phenomenal.
Not material to this debate.
Really? Because Stephen A. Smith and company love to throw 2-4 in LeBron's face as to why he can't be the GOAT. You being a basketball head might appreciate LeBron for his greatness last year, but everyone I talk to in real life and the millions on social media just parrot the same old tired spiels on Bron. "He's 2-4 in the finals," "LeBron ain't clutch," "Michael was 6 for 6," "LeBron choked in the Finals," "5/6 rings better than 2," "He ain't even better than Westbrook/ Curry/ Kobe/ insert player."
What LeBron did last year is material to this debate, because it's another example of him carrying his team with no elite talent around him and why he should be considered the GOAT over Kobe, even though LeBron probably won't match his 5 rings and Jordan's 6 are out of the question (even though the record keeper is forever Bill Russell's 11).
Hell, just LAST YEAR, ESPN did a poll of MJ vs LeBron, and 34% of the public still thought MJ could beat LeBron 1-on-1 at age 52...
LeBron is definitely not being overrated by the public.
http://espn.go.com/sportsnation/post/_/id/12888502/34-percent-think-michael-jordan-beat-lebron-james-1-1-right-now
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KneeGro_DuperMan wrote: »Nah......its over for that ? ......maybe if he developed a consistent jump shot or 3pt shot then I'll think different. ....but he shooting worse.....plus his athleticism fell off & he depends on that more than anything......the smartest thing he did was go to Miami & the dumbest thing he did was leave Miami
This ? Bron just might prove me wrong -
KneeGro_DuperMan wrote: »KneeGro_DuperMan wrote: »Nah......its over for that ? ......maybe if he developed a consistent jump shot or 3pt shot then I'll think different. ....but he shooting worse.....plus his athleticism fell off & he depends on that more than anything......the smartest thing he did was go to Miami & the dumbest thing he did was leave Miami
This ? Bron just might prove me wrong
Annnnnnnnnnnnd he did. -
It is known...
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The King is Back!
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The official Goat
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He better than Kobe now. .,
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The official Goat
Slow down. He still gotta hurdle Kareem, Mike, Magic, and Duncan for that. (and maybe Russell)
Unless he gets six rings, he can't be considered better than the first two.
