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Ajackson17 wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »Lmfao, basically you pretty much said humans live in their imagination lol. Everyone got the best idea in the world when a natural disaster hits and nothing else matters after that point.
Lankavatara-sutra says:
All things appear as perfect reality to the mind.
Apart from the mind no reality as such exits.
To perceive external reality is to see it wrongly.
Vajrapanjara-tantra says:
Neither ordinary beings nor enlightened ones
Exists outside of the precious mind.
Neurological components that is affected by stimuli to their environment that is reality.
Except at it's deepest level science has begun to dispute that base reality and also you still cannot grasp what I am saying... I am not actually questioning the realness of reality (although science itself does question that) I am questioning how much "reality" actually matters compared to what humans think.
I say, what we think is more important because it has more effect on human life. Therefor there will always be a battle of ideologies.
? thought the Nordics were superior we thought otherwise and as a result millions of people died. Compare that reality to the "reality" of any natural disaster which is more pertinent???
There are a few that think because of the mathematics that reality maybe simulated and as well the universe has a grid. There is a lot of controversy and the scientific hypothesis of that reasoning really is radical which we need radical thought, but sometimes we have to ask even deeper questions which some scientists are really asking. But anyway.....
What is being thought and what is being actually played out and what actually is happening are very different things. ? did thought the Nordics were a superior people, but if he actually paid attention to history, he would have realized that Nordics were the last to make significant amount of history to the global world. Their biggest fame was the Spartacus rebellion which ended due to their ability to separate and not a lot of resources while living in the mountains and hills. So his judgement wasn't based on anything logical, but based on what he thought should happen and he lost a war the and his life. Also, his paternal nephews who are paternally related to his father have all E markers in which you only get from your father on the Y chromosome haplogroup and ? would have had a E marker and probably descended from East/North Africans which destroys his own theory.
I'm not denying that man's imagination isn't pertinent to the discussion, I'm saying how it is shaped and the irrationality/false rational conclusions can cause way more harm than any good without doing the proper research. If DNA existed in ? 's time before his rise, his own ideologies would have marked him DEAD.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/? -had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html
I'm saying be careful what your ideologies lead you because they sure can lead you to your demise and show you are very ignorant of who you are.
@ the bold which is why i have been saying that what people think is more important than "reality"
The reality judging by the historical record is that nordic people were more primitive but like i just told you that reality meant nothing. HIS genealogy and family history all of that means absolutely nothing what mattered more was what ? perceived. Dna exist now but nazis with ? like thoughts still exist because the reality of the DNA IS OF INFERIOR IMPORTANCE. The whole ? was jewish thing is dubious
proper research once held that all black people were inferior, is was once consider a rational conclusion that what slaves ran away they were suffering from drapetomania When it come to certain subjects don't put so much stock in "proper research" BECAUSE research is only the compiling of information gathered from human beings and Humanity is not logical nor do we often truly understand what we perceive.
This is why you have me ? sapien indominus. Lol, joking, but that's why we have peer review and among other things to help us go against what we think. The difference between pseudoscience and science is that Science attempts to disprove and while pseudoscience attempts to prove. The proper method is to disprove to not prove. I think if humanity thinks with that in mind, we'll be much better off. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »Lmfao, basically you pretty much said humans live in their imagination lol. Everyone got the best idea in the world when a natural disaster hits and nothing else matters after that point.
Lankavatara-sutra says:
All things appear as perfect reality to the mind.
Apart from the mind no reality as such exits.
To perceive external reality is to see it wrongly.
Vajrapanjara-tantra says:
Neither ordinary beings nor enlightened ones
Exists outside of the precious mind.
Neurological components that is affected by stimuli to their environment that is reality.
Except at it's deepest level science has begun to dispute that base reality and also you still cannot grasp what I am saying... I am not actually questioning the realness of reality (although science itself does question that) I am questioning how much "reality" actually matters compared to what humans think.
I say, what we think is more important because it has more effect on human life. Therefor there will always be a battle of ideologies.
? thought the Nordics were superior we thought otherwise and as a result millions of people died. Compare that reality to the "reality" of any natural disaster which is more pertinent???
There are a few that think because of the mathematics that reality maybe simulated and as well the universe has a grid. There is a lot of controversy and the scientific hypothesis of that reasoning really is radical which we need radical thought, but sometimes we have to ask even deeper questions which some scientists are really asking. But anyway.....
What is being thought and what is being actually played out and what actually is happening are very different things. ? did thought the Nordics were a superior people, but if he actually paid attention to history, he would have realized that Nordics were the last to make significant amount of history to the global world. Their biggest fame was the Spartacus rebellion which ended due to their ability to separate and not a lot of resources while living in the mountains and hills. So his judgement wasn't based on anything logical, but based on what he thought should happen and he lost a war the and his life. Also, his paternal nephews who are paternally related to his father have all E markers in which you only get from your father on the Y chromosome haplogroup and ? would have had a E marker and probably descended from East/North Africans which destroys his own theory.
I'm not denying that man's imagination isn't pertinent to the discussion, I'm saying how it is shaped and the irrationality/false rational conclusions can cause way more harm than any good without doing the proper research. If DNA existed in ? 's time before his rise, his own ideologies would have marked him DEAD.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/? -had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html
I'm saying be careful what your ideologies lead you because they sure can lead you to your demise and show you are very ignorant of who you are.
@ the bold which is why i have been saying that what people think is more important than "reality"
The reality judging by the historical record is that nordic people were more primitive but like i just told you that reality meant nothing. HIS genealogy and family history all of that means absolutely nothing what mattered more was what ? perceived. Dna exist now but nazis with ? like thoughts still exist because the reality of the DNA IS OF INFERIOR IMPORTANCE. The whole ? was jewish thing is dubious
proper research once held that all black people were inferior, is was once consider a rational conclusion that what slaves ran away they were suffering from drapetomania When it come to certain subjects don't put so much stock in "proper research" BECAUSE research is only the compiling of information gathered from human beings and Humanity is not logical nor do we often truly understand what we perceive.
This is why you have me ? sapien indominus. Lol, joking, but that's why we have peer review and among other things to help us go against what we think. The difference between pseudoscience and science is that Science attempts to disprove and while pseudoscience attempts to prove. The proper method is to disprove to not prove. I think if humanity thinks with that in mind, we'll be much better off.
it does not matter who reviews we will still run in to the same flaw because it still comes back to how people perceive and then interpret the information that they have gathered via the methods of science. THE CONCLUSIONS THAT THEY REACH FROM THIS INFORMATION WILL BE colored by their thought process
what shapes the thought process??? culture and society and culture and society is always engaged in ideological warfare. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Ajackson17 wrote: »Lmfao, basically you pretty much said humans live in their imagination lol. Everyone got the best idea in the world when a natural disaster hits and nothing else matters after that point.
Lankavatara-sutra says:
All things appear as perfect reality to the mind.
Apart from the mind no reality as such exits.
To perceive external reality is to see it wrongly.
Vajrapanjara-tantra says:
Neither ordinary beings nor enlightened ones
Exists outside of the precious mind.
Neurological components that is affected by stimuli to their environment that is reality.
Except at it's deepest level science has begun to dispute that base reality and also you still cannot grasp what I am saying... I am not actually questioning the realness of reality (although science itself does question that) I am questioning how much "reality" actually matters compared to what humans think.
I say, what we think is more important because it has more effect on human life. Therefor there will always be a battle of ideologies.
? thought the Nordics were superior we thought otherwise and as a result millions of people died. Compare that reality to the "reality" of any natural disaster which is more pertinent???
There are a few that think because of the mathematics that reality maybe simulated and as well the universe has a grid. There is a lot of controversy and the scientific hypothesis of that reasoning really is radical which we need radical thought, but sometimes we have to ask even deeper questions which some scientists are really asking. But anyway.....
What is being thought and what is being actually played out and what actually is happening are very different things. ? did thought the Nordics were a superior people, but if he actually paid attention to history, he would have realized that Nordics were the last to make significant amount of history to the global world. Their biggest fame was the Spartacus rebellion which ended due to their ability to separate and not a lot of resources while living in the mountains and hills. So his judgement wasn't based on anything logical, but based on what he thought should happen and he lost a war the and his life. Also, his paternal nephews who are paternally related to his father have all E markers in which you only get from your father on the Y chromosome haplogroup and ? would have had a E marker and probably descended from East/North Africans which destroys his own theory.
I'm not denying that man's imagination isn't pertinent to the discussion, I'm saying how it is shaped and the irrationality/false rational conclusions can cause way more harm than any good without doing the proper research. If DNA existed in ? 's time before his rise, his own ideologies would have marked him DEAD.
http://www.eupedia.com/europe/Haplogroup_E1b1b_Y-DNA.shtml
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/history/world-war-two/7961211/? -had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html
I'm saying be careful what your ideologies lead you because they sure can lead you to your demise and show you are very ignorant of who you are.
@ the bold which is why i have been saying that what people think is more important than "reality"
The reality judging by the historical record is that nordic people were more primitive but like i just told you that reality meant nothing. HIS genealogy and family history all of that means absolutely nothing what mattered more was what ? perceived. Dna exist now but nazis with ? like thoughts still exist because the reality of the DNA IS OF INFERIOR IMPORTANCE. The whole ? was jewish thing is dubious
proper research once held that all black people were inferior, is was once consider a rational conclusion that what slaves ran away they were suffering from drapetomania When it come to certain subjects don't put so much stock in "proper research" BECAUSE research is only the compiling of information gathered from human beings and Humanity is not logical nor do we often truly understand what we perceive.
This is why you have me ? sapien indominus. Lol, joking, but that's why we have peer review and among other things to help us go against what we think. The difference between pseudoscience and science is that Science attempts to disprove and while pseudoscience attempts to prove. The proper method is to disprove to not prove. I think if humanity thinks with that in mind, we'll be much better off.
it does not matter who reviews we will still run in to the same flaw because it still comes back to how people perceive and then interpret the information that they have gathered via the methods of science. THE CONCLUSIONS THAT THEY REACH FROM THIS INFORMATION WILL BE colored by their thought process
what shapes the thought process??? culture and society and culture and society is always engaged in ideological warfare.
We can agree to disagree. It's possible....nothing is impossible. -
The Devil is fiction, ? is fiction, and all the allegories, parables, & similes in the bible is mythology on steroids.
We are hunter-gatherer, vertically upright simians. We share 98% DNA with Chimps and Bonobos.
We have partial webbing between our fingers and toes (indicating that we has a semi-aquatic existence).
Our females produce their own milk to suckle our offspring. We are warm-blooded, we have bi-pedal locomotion.
We have hair growing from our skin etc. The bible is a literary concoction of high-flying rhetorical platitudes, coupled with a vengeful "diva-like" ? figure who uses his wrath like a third-world dictator.
In sum, the "Devil" or devilish acts, are when we adhere to the lowest common denominator of our primal instincts (selfishness, tribalism, and hate).
As highly social animals, virtues like altruism, sharing, and compassion are traits that help us attend to our highest instincts.
I'll end this with a quote from the Gibbons....
"The common people find religion all equally true, the philosophers/thinkers find religion all equally false, and the magistrates and governments find religion all equally useful."
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the dukester wrote: »The Devil is fiction, ? is fiction, and all the allegories, parables, & similes in the bible is mythology on steroids.
We are hunter-gatherer, vertically upright simians. We share 98% DNA with Chimps and Bonobos.
We have partial webbing between our fingers and toes (indicating that we has a semi-aquatic existence).
Our females produce their own milk to suckle our offspring. We are warm-blooded, we have bi-pedal locomotion.
We have hair growing from our skin etc. The bible is a literary concoction of high-flying rhetorical platitudes, coupled with a vengeful "diva-like" ? figure who uses his wrath like a third-world dictator.
In sum, the "Devil" or devilish acts, are when we adhere to the lowest common denominator of our primal instincts (selfishness, tribalism, and hate).
As highly social animals, virtues like altruism, sharing, and compassion are traits that help us attend to our highest instincts.
I'll end this with a quote from the Gibbons....
"The common people find religion all equally true, the philosophers/thinkers find religion all equally false, and the magistrates and governments find religion all equally useful."
Great summary. -
Maybe that is where this is all going; aliens are going to be made apparent, cryptid creatures are going to be revealed as real but are for the most part now extinct, the great coming out of religion, a new consciousness.... universalism, what one does* to/for another, they do to/for all, understanding that we will not wish to harm ourselves let alone anyone else. Maybe that is the 1000yr utopia revelation speaks of, then after a while that selfish part of consciousness will creep back, wreak some havoc then we''ll finally let it go and it will be gone forever. Heaven on earth.
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@kingblaze84kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »I guess I'm the type of person to question things thoroughly before I believe in it, but I agree many things about life are great, without a doubt. I'm sure you can understand though why many people remain skeptical about the Christian viewpoint, it seems there's more questions then answers when I think about the Christian view. Maybe I have unrealistic ideas of what a ? is supposed to be, but otherwise I don't see any evidence the Bible ? is a real ? at all. It seems just as active as my dead guinea pigs.
I get that. It's all gravy. As long as you not like some ppl that go around purposely lying about the facts.
I be praying that ppl come to their senses about the word but if a person won't be honest with themselves it's hard...it's like something ppl refuse to do these days it seem.
Maybe your mind is completely made up already. I had a couple friends like that....some of them I'm no longer friends with. Not because I did anything wrong to them but just because my strong held biblical views...but at least I know the reason they don't wanna be friends isn't because I wasn't being real with em
Yeah I got friends who are Christian and it's a shame you lost some friends over your beliefs, but I wouldn't stop respecting someone just because they have different religious beliefs then me. My homegirl (the chick on my avy) is herself Christian and sometimes after smoking weed she likes to get a little preachy on me, and she knows exactly how I feel about the Bible ? but respect is respect.
As far as my mind being made up, as I've said throughout this thread and others ones, I'm open to a ? proving itself to me. But if my basic questions about life can't be answered, then my mind will remain closed to the Bible and whatever stories are in it. Believe it or not I myself prayed when I was younger to have my faith be increased, but all I felt was silence. Being honest with myself, I decided I can't believe what I don't see or feel. But congrats on being able to feel the Bible ? 's presence lol
I appreciate that you question stuff though. Questioning is good, but it's better when someone around that know the right answer that can quickly help, since Christianity is a religion of teaching. and in the Bible it teach that belief (faith) is necessary, but that belief is based on "hearing" the truth. which Jesus said the word of ? is (actually) truth...truth is what people really hungry for. majority of what is taught in mainstream CHristianity is watered down versions of this truth...it's missing the nutrients and substance. therefore it doesn't produce a true 'hearing' (understanding) in the ears of many non-christians with questions..and for many is probably why it lead to disbelief. gotta go to the source to get the real deal. Society and mainstream Christianity is not teaching yall how to fish.
But i'm not gonna get too deep in the game, i'ma leave it alone for now. lol.
I actually went to Catholic school when I was younger, went to one for about 10 years, elementary and first two years of high school, so I know the Bible very, very well. I've read it over and over and while I was always questioning things then, I was at one point a Christian.
I've read it and I gotta be honest, many parts of the Bible disgusted me. There seem to be too many lies in it, remember what Jesus said about prayer? Didn't he say he'd come back "quickly"? 2,000 plus years later, nothing is going on. Million year old grudges? Nevermind the ridiculous things the Old Testament supports, the more I read it, the more I realized the Bible ? is some kind of nutcase, not a reasonable being.
I do agree mainstream Christianity is watered down, but that's because Christianity and the Bible have lost a ton of influence worldwide. If it wasn't for European colonization and them destroying the cultures and religions of millions around the world, a ton of people wouldn't even be Christian right now. Think about that.
As for what Jesus said about prayer, not sure what verse you referring to...I assume you mean the verse where Jesus says if you ask anything in his name he will do it? The key to understanding this is in the meaning of 'in his name'. In his name means with his permission.
Jesus saying he will come "quickly" if u referring to verses in Revelation the key is in the meaning of 'quickly'. It's translated from the Greek word "tachu". It don't necessarily mean "shortly" or "soon". It can also mean by surprise, or all of a sudden, which is consistent with other verses about the 2nd coming. It's the same word translated here: "As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly and came to Him" (John 11:29)
Mentioning European colonization occurring doens't explain the reasoning why every individual choose Christianity as their religion of choice, plus it's purely hypothetical to imply that Christianity still wouldn't have spread if not for European colonization. -
The devil is a scapegoat for the evil in humanity and in religious circles attributed to "sinfulness" often times a justification or excuse for the "evil" we do. "The devil made me do it". ? is also a scapegoat and a source for identifying "goodness" in men and retribution towards the sinful nature of mankind. "All things are possible through him, I have been blessed ect ect ect...".
Belief and faith are good things but not an explanation for cause and effect, such as karma and blessings vs retribution or the fear of punishment.
I don't think divinity if you want to call it that, loves or hates, it is beyond these things we call feelings and emotions and beyond our true understanding of them. We only hope and have faith because of fear, everyone with faith will have a crisis of there faith and question "did I do enough to gain access to a higher existence?".
Does the devil love me, does ? love me, I don't think our definition of love applies. -
The devil is a scapegoat for the evil in humanity and in religious circles attributed to "sinfulness" often times a justification or excuse for the "evil" we do. "The devil made me do it". ? is also a scapegoat and a source for identifying "goodness" in men and retribution towards the sinful nature of mankind. "All things are possible through him, I have been blessed ect ect ect...".
Belief and faith are good things but not an explanation for cause and effect, such as karma and blessings vs retribution or the fear of punishment.
I don't think divinity if you want to call it that, loves or hates, it is beyond these things we call feelings and emotions and beyond our true understanding of them. We only hope and have faith because of fear, everyone with faith will have a crisis of there faith and question "did I do enough to gain access to a higher existence?".
Does the devil love me, does ? love me, I don't think our definition of love applies.
It is true that ? and the Devil have been scapegoated. But I don't think it's reason to dismiss them because mankind wants immunity from the wrongs and glorification for the rights.
I believe in divinity you can love or hate...just on an absolute level. It isn't being conditional...in which man is. We can never be absolute in our expression of this because we fall short of divinity. According to the Bible, you can't earn divinity so for someone who call himself or herself Christian thinking that would be deceived. -
@kingblaze84kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »I guess I'm the type of person to question things thoroughly before I believe in it, but I agree many things about life are great, without a doubt. I'm sure you can understand though why many people remain skeptical about the Christian viewpoint, it seems there's more questions then answers when I think about the Christian view. Maybe I have unrealistic ideas of what a ? is supposed to be, but otherwise I don't see any evidence the Bible ? is a real ? at all. It seems just as active as my dead guinea pigs.
I get that. It's all gravy. As long as you not like some ppl that go around purposely lying about the facts.
I be praying that ppl come to their senses about the word but if a person won't be honest with themselves it's hard...it's like something ppl refuse to do these days it seem.
Maybe your mind is completely made up already. I had a couple friends like that....some of them I'm no longer friends with. Not because I did anything wrong to them but just because my strong held biblical views...but at least I know the reason they don't wanna be friends isn't because I wasn't being real with em
Yeah I got friends who are Christian and it's a shame you lost some friends over your beliefs, but I wouldn't stop respecting someone just because they have different religious beliefs then me. My homegirl (the chick on my avy) is herself Christian and sometimes after smoking weed she likes to get a little preachy on me, and she knows exactly how I feel about the Bible ? but respect is respect.
As far as my mind being made up, as I've said throughout this thread and others ones, I'm open to a ? proving itself to me. But if my basic questions about life can't be answered, then my mind will remain closed to the Bible and whatever stories are in it. Believe it or not I myself prayed when I was younger to have my faith be increased, but all I felt was silence. Being honest with myself, I decided I can't believe what I don't see or feel. But congrats on being able to feel the Bible ? 's presence lol
I appreciate that you question stuff though. Questioning is good, but it's better when someone around that know the right answer that can quickly help, since Christianity is a religion of teaching. and in the Bible it teach that belief (faith) is necessary, but that belief is based on "hearing" the truth. which Jesus said the word of ? is (actually) truth...truth is what people really hungry for. majority of what is taught in mainstream CHristianity is watered down versions of this truth...it's missing the nutrients and substance. therefore it doesn't produce a true 'hearing' (understanding) in the ears of many non-christians with questions..and for many is probably why it lead to disbelief. gotta go to the source to get the real deal. Society and mainstream Christianity is not teaching yall how to fish.
But i'm not gonna get too deep in the game, i'ma leave it alone for now. lol.
I actually went to Catholic school when I was younger, went to one for about 10 years, elementary and first two years of high school, so I know the Bible very, very well. I've read it over and over and while I was always questioning things then, I was at one point a Christian.
I've read it and I gotta be honest, many parts of the Bible disgusted me. There seem to be too many lies in it, remember what Jesus said about prayer? Didn't he say he'd come back "quickly"? 2,000 plus years later, nothing is going on. Million year old grudges? Nevermind the ridiculous things the Old Testament supports, the more I read it, the more I realized the Bible ? is some kind of nutcase, not a reasonable being.
I do agree mainstream Christianity is watered down, but that's because Christianity and the Bible have lost a ton of influence worldwide. If it wasn't for European colonization and them destroying the cultures and religions of millions around the world, a ton of people wouldn't even be Christian right now. Think about that.
As for what Jesus said about prayer, not sure what verse you referring to...I assume you mean the verse where Jesus says if you ask anything in his name he will do it? The key to understanding this is in the meaning of 'in his name'. In his name means with his permission.
Jesus saying he will come "quickly" if u referring to verses in Revelation the key is in the meaning of 'quickly'. It's translated from the Greek word "tachu". It don't necessarily mean "shortly" or "soon". It can also mean by surprise, or all of a sudden, which is consistent with other verses about the 2nd coming. It's the same word translated here: "As soon as she heard that, she arose quickly and came to Him" (John 11:29)
Mentioning European colonization occurring doens't explain the reasoning why every individual choose Christianity as their religion of choice, plus it's purely hypothetical to imply that Christianity still wouldn't have spread if not for European colonization.
Jesus still lied his ass off though several times, assuming the writers of the Bible even knew what Jesus was saying. How many years was the Bible written after Jesus' death in various books, 50 to 80 years?? It's possible Jesus never even said these things but supposedly, he is quoted as saying this about prayer....
"Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
These are just outright, boldfaced lies, and it calls into question everything else written there. The verses speak for itself, EVERYONE who asks and SEEKS, the door WILL be opened. Umm, that hasn't happened for many around the world and I actually called out to Jesus on this very forum about a year ago, nothing happened.
I'm sure the translators who mentioned Jesus coming "quickly" knew what they were doing, didn't divine inspiration make the Bible? Is the Bible full of human mistakes? What kind of "divine" book is this? Perhaps we should just admit the Bible is a man made book, full of human errors as any other book. The translation argument always hurts Christians because it makes it obvious the Bible was written by faulty humans, how can the book ever be trusted then. -
BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Maybe that is where this is all going; aliens are going to be made apparent, cryptid creatures are going to be revealed as real but are for the most part now extinct, the great coming out of religion, a new consciousness.... universalism, what one does* to/for another, they do to/for all, understanding that we will not wish to harm ourselves let alone anyone else. Maybe that is the 1000yr utopia revelation speaks of, then after a while that selfish part of consciousness will creep back, wreak some havoc then we''ll finally let it go and it will be gone forever. Heaven on earth.
Stephen Dawkins thinks aliens would hurt us but I've read stories about aliens throughout history helping humanity too. If they was to appear and help humans be less selfish and savage as many are now, it would be a great thing. Humans will always be selfish on some level but if more people have their basic needs met, the world would be a much better place. If that would happen, I say let them come. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Jesus still lied his ass off though several times, assuming the writers of the Bible even knew what Jesus was saying. How many years was the Bible written after Jesus' death in various books, 50 to 80 years?? It's possible Jesus never even said these things but supposedly, he is quoted as saying this about prayer....
"Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
These are just outright, boldfaced lies, and it calls into question everything else written there. The verses speak for itself, EVERYONE who asks and SEEKS, the door WILL be opened. Umm, that hasn't happened for many around the world and I actually called out to Jesus on this very forum about a year ago, nothing happened.
I'm sure the translators who mentioned Jesus coming "quickly" knew what they were doing, didn't divine inspiration make the Bible? Is the Bible full of human mistakes? What kind of "divine" book is this? Perhaps we should just admit the Bible is a man made book, full of human errors as any other book. The translation argument always hurts Christians because it makes it obvious the Bible was written by faulty humans, how can the book ever be trusted then.
That's false! Jesus never lied. What you just said is completely counter to other text that informs that ? CANNOT lie (Titus 1:2). I.e. ? isn't even capable of lying. I don't know if they went over that back during your Catholic studies but it's an important point to remember to say the least! Im glad you depart the Catholic church anyway though since they teach falsely and often can't even answer simple questions and most likely kick you out just for asking not questions they can't answer anyway.
Btwn you incorrect the Bible wasn't written no 50-80 years after Jesus death. The entire OT was in existence already at the time he walked the earth. And even if you're referring to the Gospel accounts, since You quoted Matthew, it most certainly didn't take no 50-80 years after Jesus death for the Gospels to be written. Also None of the Gospels even GIVE a timeframe of year for which they were written. So if you got that information from a skeptic by doing a Google search you should ask them How do they know? At minimum we know it didn't take nowhere near as long as you suggest because the Apostle Paul quoted the Lords Supper from the Gospel of Luke in his first letter to the Corinthians, during the time he was traveling the world so this tells us the gospel was already well in circulation before this letter. the letter to Corinthians was is estimated to have been written around 50 something AD at latest.
In the first passage you quote about prayer Jesus is talking specifically to the Apostles at this time in context of them trying to cast out a demon. Which is generally something only Jesus can do. Not everything he told them apply to us literally the same manner as far as what he mentioned about the tree or moving mountains. These things involve miraculous events. Jesus passed his powers onto the Apostles and some of them had the ability to do these miracles and even pass gifts onto other disciples at the time by laying hands on them but all these "gifts" eventually came to an end. Prayer works. But ? doesn't use miracles to fulfill prayer in this age.
Next, so you claim u called on Jesus on here? "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
this touches on what it mean to call on Jesus. I doubt you were serious enough to do that part. And why would you? By your own words you don't believe, so that wouldn't happen unless you did. As far as asking and not relieving sometimes the answer is here:
"You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions" (James 4:2-3)
Regarding the translation of "quickly" I never said it was a bad translation only pointed out that you didn't understand what you were reading. This is a poor example to use to make a case against translations in general anyways since the translation is not even technically wrong. The much larger context about the 2nd coming dictates the meaning of the word here which if you didn't ignore that detail and weren't so pressed on looking for what seems to be an inconsistency in the Bible you would maybe understand that. You talking about an English translation. There are SEVERAL English translations. No Translation from one language into another is PERFECT in all aspects. And the translations themselves aren't inspired. The original text is what is inspired. Most bible students understand this. It has no bearing on the originals. NOBODY is going around claiming that the original Greek and Hebrew text is faulty or has mistakes! So what's your point? Lol -
AWWWWWWW ? !, PLOT TWIST!
For many many years evil white people convinced black people and the rest of the world that black folks were the worst people on earth. This brainwashing still lingers till this very day. This has been proven false and it's easy as hell to hell to see this. But a scary amount of people(especially white folks/the creators of it) still think we are the worst.
Could this be the case with ? and the devil..........? Could ? have been an ass and the devil just got tired of his ? ? ? couldn't take this act of defiance so he punished the devil and sullied his name. -
Obviously ? does exist, but that's another thread already done.
We are living freely. This is what ? gave us. We are suffering (and in some ways profiting) from our ability to live freely. Basically ? is letting us see that his way was right. Constantly its like you told someone you will die if you jump off that cliff and humanity is saying "i want the freedom to jump off the cliff" then the dead person who committed suicide blames ? for dying when he gave the warning of what would happen. This is our predicament and a point to your thread.
He's not forcing us to do what he says, he's letting us see that he was right for ourselves. So, keep doing things as you please. If you read his way, then you can see the logic of it or maybe you won't. But ultimately the human experience is an example for us as humans and the angels to see a world played out where our decisions of good/evil or choices or intelligence vs. ignorance plays out. So when we go to the next life we will undoubtedly trust ? and see from our own experience the logic of his ways and why his way and why to be under him is better than to be without him.
With that said, in answer to your question: (other questions that are like yours: "does ? hate Satan as an individual or only hate the sin he inducts or his acts and ways?)
(also it's not that ? created sin but sin was a side effect or the name given to what happens when basically you go against his way. His way is to preserve life. Everything about him is in an attempt to show creation how to preserve life and make us better than we would be without him. (don't really expect you to believe it but whatever)
I can respect to a limited degree the thread starter trying to think out the box and see a situation, but before a person answers or even responds to questions like these then often I or anyone else who studies writings on the bible and the bible itself want to know how much time and research the person asking the question has done. Nobody wants to just keep answering questions that require time when the other person truly doesn't care and is as close minded as that other thinks the bible person is.
I can admit I'm in constant doubt of my faith and always reaffirming it & challenging it;
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One another point related:
This is why bad things happen to good people and why evil people are sometimes rewarded with certain things on earth. It isn't because ? doesn't care. It's because the truth is you are free.
It is a good parameter to gauge the faith of a human and why we believe in ? .
If people can see robbing someone can get you paid, lying can get you a good job in law or politics, ruthlessness and being unkind can allow you to be a leader then you will have some who see this as an option then engage in doing this. It's a filtering process to see who is true in character.
Thus, my point is it's good that what goes around doesn't always come around. Why? Because it shows the integrity and truth behind someone's act.
? doesn't want people to believe simply to avoid hell and go to heaven or because that individual believes "if I don't do this for this person, then ? 's going to punish me." ? doesn't want those who say when they see a person doing something controversial "? 's going to punish that person." or "See that person with that disease or that person who lost that baby...that's because they did something wrong with ? and ? 's paying them back." This is supported in the Job story and the book of Ecclesiastes.
? wants a person who basically just believes in right and good principles and has faith in his son Jesus and himself and acknowledges constantly that no matter the result this is who that person is and believes in. So that individual can receive no reward, no what goes around comes around and still be seen as consistent in their purpose and acts towards doing what they believe by ? to be right.
To put it another way, would you want a child who obeys you because he fears the whipping and then as soon as you say I won't whip you then he does the act you told him you just simply didn't want him to do OR do you want the child who hears what you're saying, understands what you're saying and agrees that what you're saying is right and decides on his own that he believes you. That's Christ. -
Every time this is brought up. Dodging, double talk, "I'm more enlightened than you" attitude, and then anger/nonsense starts.the dukester wrote: »The Devil is fiction, ? is fiction, and all the allegories, parables, & similes in the bible is mythology on steroids.
We are hunter-gatherer, vertically upright simians. We share 98% DNA with Chimps and Bonobos.
We have partial webbing between our fingers and toes (indicating that we has a semi-aquatic existence).
Our females produce their own milk to suckle our offspring. We are warm-blooded, we have bi-pedal locomotion.
We have hair growing from our skin etc. The bible is a literary concoction of high-flying rhetorical platitudes, coupled with a vengeful "diva-like" ? figure who uses his wrath like a third-world dictator.
In sum, the "Devil" or devilish acts, are when we adhere to the lowest common denominator of our primal instincts (selfishness, tribalism, and hate).
As highly social animals, virtues like altruism, sharing, and compassion are traits that help us attend to our highest instincts.
I'll end this with a quote from the Gibbons....
"The common people find religion all equally true, the philosophers/thinkers find religion all equally false, and the magistrates and governments find religion all equally useful."
Ask them about ? destroying a bunch of ? having a ? party. Then asked them about ? loving all his creations.
Ask them about treating women like ? and lower human beings. But not men though lol.
This is how ? wants it..........? lol. Contradictions, confusion, to just flat out silly ? .
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@luke1733
Bruh, you just a human being like the rest of us. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!!!! You simply just believe in some story a human being made up and published 100's of years ago. Which has changed an unknown number of times to a point where nobody knows what is fact from fiction. This story over the years has caused unimaginable death, confusion, separation, pain, and suffering. This is what you put your faith in? this is what you choose to completely believe in?
You don't truly know what the ? ? wants or if ? is actually real. Hell, how do you know ? was even a "he?" LOL at how people like you break down and explain what the "creator of everything" wants and does. You know what's really funny? what you just explained is just one version of many explanations. Most of them clash or contradict the other. Even within your own belief system this happens among yourselves. When everybody of the same religious group got they own interpretations of the same deity, I have a big issue with that. Anybody in that religion should too.
It's always funny to sit here and watch you all come up with these "theories" of the all mighty and make them into fact lol. -
Guess you catching a feeling cause I ain't never said I was special and don't think so. I MEAN YOU COULD HAVE STOPPED AT 3 EXCLAMATION POINTS, but when you went to four I just had to respond.PILL_COSBY wrote: »@luke1733
Bruh, you just a human being like the rest of us. YOU ARE NOT SPECIAL!!!! You simply just believe in some story a human being made up and published 100's of years ago. Which has changed an unknown number of times to a point where nobody knows what is fact from fiction. This story over the years has caused unimaginable death, confusion, separation, pain, and suffering. This is what you put your faith in? this is what you choose to completely believe in?
You don't truly know what the ? ? wants or if ? is actually real. Hell, how do you know ? was even a "he?" LOL at how people like you break down and explain what the "creator of everything" wants and does. You know what's really funny? what you just explained is just one version of many explanations. Most of them clash or contradict the other. Even within your own belief system this happens among yourselves. When everybody of the same religious group got they own interpretations of the same deity, I have a big issue with that. Anybody in that religion should too.
It's always funny to sit here and watch you all come up with these "theories" of the all mighty and make them into fact lol.
In fact I think i'm uniquely different just like everyone else thinks they different the same. go figure.
& bruh, nobody really cares what ur saying. It's not like i'm changing ur mind or ur changing mine. so....maybe you read and study or maybe you ask questions on something others read and then make a baselesss comment stated a million times by others just like ya'. Good luck with that -
How do you even attempt to prove a deity even exists? What method did you use, what testing and experimentation did you do? Do you have an encounter that you could definitely prove and show us to quantify what you are saying? Or is it just belief?
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Ajackson17 wrote: »How do you even attempt to prove a deity even exists? What method did you use, what testing and experimentation did you do? Do you have an encounter that you could definitely prove and show us to quantify what you are saying? Or is it just belief?
you cannot prove a ? exists to someone else because a ? has agency and power of it's own a ? would have to reveal himself to you. I cannot tell you how I know ? exists but I can tell you how to find ? on your own I can put you on the path and you can find ? on your own but you would have to be willing to actually do it.
An easier way to know for sure that the supernatural exists is to look to the negative aspects of the spiritual world because they will look into you. ? and the positive aspects are working on your behalf everyday but most people are just not sensitive enough to pick up on it. -
Ajackson17 wrote: »How do you even attempt to prove a deity even exists? What method did you use, what testing and experimentation did you do? Do you have an encounter that you could definitely prove and show us to quantify what you are saying? Or is it just belief?
you cannot prove a ? exists to someone else because a ? has agency and power of it's own a ? would have to reveal himself to you. I cannot tell you how I know ? exists but I can tell you how to find ? on your own I can put you on the path and you can find ? on your own but you would have to be willing to actually do it.
An easier way to know for sure that the supernatural exists is to look to the negative aspects of the spiritual world because they will look into you. ? and the positive aspects are working on your behalf everyday but most people are just not sensitive enough to pick up on it.
There are reasons I asked these questions because Luke said there is a definite way of proving ? exists. Then I asked him a serious of questions to see how he knows this. You cannot say you can prove something and then don't prove it. That's ? . Reeks of con-artistry. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Jesus still lied his ass off though several times, assuming the writers of the Bible even knew what Jesus was saying. How many years was the Bible written after Jesus' death in various books, 50 to 80 years?? It's possible Jesus never even said these things but supposedly, he is quoted as saying this about prayer....
"Truly I say to you, if you have faith and do not doubt, you will not only do what was done to the fig tree, but even if you say to this mountain, `Be taken up and cast into the sea,' it will happen. "And all things you ask in prayer, believing, you will receive." (Matthew 21:21-22 NAS)
Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened. (Matthew 7:7-8 NAB)
These are just outright, boldfaced lies, and it calls into question everything else written there. The verses speak for itself, EVERYONE who asks and SEEKS, the door WILL be opened. Umm, that hasn't happened for many around the world and I actually called out to Jesus on this very forum about a year ago, nothing happened.
I'm sure the translators who mentioned Jesus coming "quickly" knew what they were doing, didn't divine inspiration make the Bible? Is the Bible full of human mistakes? What kind of "divine" book is this? Perhaps we should just admit the Bible is a man made book, full of human errors as any other book. The translation argument always hurts Christians because it makes it obvious the Bible was written by faulty humans, how can the book ever be trusted then.
That's false! Jesus never lied. What you just said is completely counter to other text that informs that ? CANNOT lie (Titus 1:2). I.e. ? isn't even capable of lying. I don't know if they went over that back during your Catholic studies but it's an important point to remember to say the least! Im glad you depart the Catholic church anyway though since they teach falsely and often can't even answer simple questions and most likely kick you out just for asking not questions they can't answer anyway.
Btwn you incorrect the Bible wasn't written no 50-80 years after Jesus death. The entire OT was in existence already at the time he walked the earth. And even if you're referring to the Gospel accounts, since You quoted Matthew, it most certainly didn't take no 50-80 years after Jesus death for the Gospels to be written. Also None of the Gospels even GIVE a timeframe of year for which they were written. So if you got that information from a skeptic by doing a Google search you should ask them How do they know? At minimum we know it didn't take nowhere near as long as you suggest because the Apostle Paul quoted the Lords Supper from the Gospel of Luke in his first letter to the Corinthians, during the time he was traveling the world so this tells us the gospel was already well in circulation before this letter. the letter to Corinthians was is estimated to have been written around 50 something AD at latest.
In the first passage you quote about prayer Jesus is talking specifically to the Apostles at this time in context of them trying to cast out a demon. Which is generally something only Jesus can do. Not everything he told them apply to us literally the same manner as far as what he mentioned about the tree or moving mountains. These things involve miraculous events. Jesus passed his powers onto the Apostles and some of them had the ability to do these miracles and even pass gifts onto other disciples at the time by laying hands on them but all these "gifts" eventually came to an end. Prayer works. But ? doesn't use miracles to fulfill prayer in this age.
Next, so you claim u called on Jesus on here? "And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord." (Acts 22:16)
this touches on what it mean to call on Jesus. I doubt you were serious enough to do that part. And why would you? By your own words you don't believe, so that wouldn't happen unless you did. As far as asking and not relieving sometimes the answer is here:
"You desire and do not have, so you murder. You covet and cannot obtain, so you fight and quarrel. You do not have, because you do not ask. You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions" (James 4:2-3)
Regarding the translation of "quickly" I never said it was a bad translation only pointed out that you didn't understand what you were reading. This is a poor example to use to make a case against translations in general anyways since the translation is not even technically wrong. The much larger context about the 2nd coming dictates the meaning of the word here which if you didn't ignore that detail and weren't so pressed on looking for what seems to be an inconsistency in the Bible you would maybe understand that. You talking about an English translation. There are SEVERAL English translations. No Translation from one language into another is PERFECT in all aspects. And the translations themselves aren't inspired. The original text is what is inspired. Most bible students understand this. It has no bearing on the originals. NOBODY is going around claiming that the original Greek and Hebrew text is faulty or has mistakes! So what's your point? Lol
I should have clarified myself on the Gospel accounts, I meant those were written some years after Jesus' death, not the entire Bible itself of course. I have issues with the Old Testament as well but that's a whole other thread.
As far as the Gospel accounts, I hear different things on how soon they were written after Jesus' death, I most often hear 50-80 years, I'm happy to admit I could be wrong on that account because perhaps no one knows. But the prayers of many Christians throughout the world go unanswered, and Jesus' words seem pretty clear to me. Perhaps we're interpreting the words differently, but the passages itself seem very clear cut in my eyes.
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/image_content_width/hash/46/16/4616044e82d38f5ca9557bcc89d7d9ab.jpg?itok=080W_WCf
As far as the original Hebrew and Greek text being "inspired", and you admitting the translation of "quickly" is not even technically wrong, I still think 2,000 plus years is quite a damn long time to not help solve the massive problems of some majority Christian nations out there. It just seems very lazy to be "all powerful" but be lazy as hell at the same time. Considering the Bible ? claims to love "all" people, other places could use its blessings as well. But perhaps the Bible ? is incapable of showing itself, and that's fine. People will continue on their path. -
Idk why more people don't point out the mind when trying to make a point about ? illusiveness. We all agree we have a mind, this container like things that holds our thoughts and "who" we are, we can be inside our mind completely oblivious to "reality" but no one can find the damn thing! But we all swear we have it, well except for those who have "lost it". Ahhh well, smoke a bowl and think about it haha.
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BiblicalAtheist wrote: »Idk why more people don't point out the mind when trying to make a point about ? illusiveness. We all agree we have a mind, this container like things that holds our thoughts and "who" we are, we can be inside our mind completely oblivious to "reality" but no one can find the damn thing! But we all swear we have it, well except for those who have "lost it". Ahhh well, smoke a bowl and think about it haha.
That's a good point, the mind is an amazing thing and like I've always said, I have no problem saying there is or was a higher power out there, there does seem to be some kind of design to the world. But I'm not sure if we can say a "? " designed the world, maybe highly advanced aliens who were created by other highly advanced aliens made the world as it is. I'm saying this after smoking a big joint awhile ago lol -
I don't see ? as an individual-like being. Tho if ? is ? , ? is definitely the only one in that class. I see ? as a permeating presence, to be used by, felt by, heard and see by or not by humans. Humans are the only ones on the planet(as far as I know) that have developed the ability(by use of ? 's permeating presence) to even ponder this ? . ? imo "comes from" or rather resides in the void and from there everything is possible; undifferentiated potential(and also why we are "cut off" from ? . It is intelligent in that some sort of intelligence has collected overtime or it could not have progressed to this point, and it is that collection that anyone is able to connect to.
It is as mysterious yet wonderful as the mind. And if not for "? " and the 'serpent', I'd have not the mind to know! Haha damn that bowl was this morning....
