Rapper Ranking Project: Rapper #3 - Tupac
Options
Comments
-
lol It's kinda weird that Pac fans don't know what a story is. The songs they keep naming are great songs, but half of them aren't stories.
-
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »IceBergTaylor wrote: »Word y'all need to stop complaining clearly its totally fine with him that theres different opinions LOL I do agree with the idea there needs to be a panel but y'all cant kick the ? out of what he started. Add 3 more people and continue with the NEXT artist.
That's the problem he ain't wanna add nobody he wanted I tried to help him out when he first started with the idea becuz I knew this would end up happening but he ain't wanna hear me lol
lol @ trying to help me. You take yourself and this board way too seriously.
Tryna help you out with a good idea is taking the group to seriously??? Ummmmm yea sure whatever you say lol
Bruh, I had a purpose with the series of threads. I explained that purpose. You dudes didn't agree with the methodology, largely because I wouldn't just change the ? you wanted me to. Let's be real, if Jay got all 5s, I would never have heard a peep from you about the topic being executed wrong. If Pac got all 5s, @Sion wouldn't have had a hissy fit and cyber stormed off. But whatever the reason, you guys want something different. I'm cool with that, but you're not helping me by suggesting a methodology that basically does away with any way of ensuring objectivity when my whole purpose was to create an objective ranking system.
Still don't understand what objective is I see that's why this was destined to fail from jump.. And if you gave Jay all 5 I would have laughed at you wtf why would I agree with Jay having all 5s when I didn't give him all 5s myself... And that is the example of how this isn't objective becuz I gave objective answers and reasons but since you didn't agree you dismissed it as fan answers but then wanna say this was a open objective series for everybody....no ? this was you creating all the narratives and deciding what's good enough for you to change or not change my ? that's not a open objective nothing becuz it still all boils down to one person's feelings on what a ranking should be you just taking ppl opinions you agree with into consideration but object would be using opinions you DON'T agree with becuz that would mean it's not all about you but you ain't change nothing till you agreed so again if one person holds all the cards that's not an objective ranking which is why ppl telling you that it needs more then you calling the shots -
I actually dont see what y'all complaining about. He puts a rapper you guys rate them and then everything gets added up and a score is finalized. What's the issue?
Threads on these same tired rappers are doing numbers also. What the problem is? -
@The Lonious Monk man ? that, keep ur thread fam. ? these ? ' feelings.
-
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »IceBergTaylor wrote: »Word y'all need to stop complaining clearly its totally fine with him that theres different opinions LOL I do agree with the idea there needs to be a panel but y'all cant kick the ? out of what he started. Add 3 more people and continue with the NEXT artist.
That's the problem he ain't wanna add nobody he wanted I tried to help him out when he first started with the idea becuz I knew this would end up happening but he ain't wanna hear me lol
lol @ trying to help me. You take yourself and this board way too seriously.
Tryna help you out with a good idea is taking the group to seriously??? Ummmmm yea sure whatever you say lol
Bruh, I had a purpose with the series of threads. I explained that purpose. You dudes didn't agree with the methodology, largely because I wouldn't just change the ? you wanted me to. Let's be real, if Jay got all 5s, I would never have heard a peep from you about the topic being executed wrong. If Pac got all 5s, @Sion wouldn't have had a hissy fit and cyber stormed off. But whatever the reason, you guys want something different. I'm cool with that, but you're not helping me by suggesting a methodology that basically does away with any way of ensuring objectivity when my whole purpose was to create an objective ranking system.
Still don't understand what objective is I see that's why this was destined to fail from jump.. And if you gave Jay all 5 I would have laughed at you wtf why would I agree with Jay having all 5s when I didn't give him all 5s myself... And that is the example of how this isn't objective becuz I gave objective answers and reasons but since you didn't agree you dismissed it as fan answers but then wanna say this was a open objective series for everybody....no ? this was you creating all the narratives and deciding what's good enough for you to change or not change my ? that's not a open objective nothing becuz it still all boils down to one person's feelings on what a ranking should be you just taking ppl opinions you agree with into consideration but object would be using opinions you DON'T agree with becuz that would mean it's not all about you but you ain't change nothing till you agreed so again if one person holds all the cards that's not an objective ranking which is why ppl telling you that it needs more then you calling the shots
Being objective doesn't mean everyone gets and equal say or that everyone's opinions are considered equally. Objective means that we have an impartial set of standards and metrics and that decisions are made according to those rules and not anyone's opinions on the rappers themselves. Of course there will be some subjectivity. It's impossible to take it out, but the more defined the rules the less subjective opinions come into play.
You clearly don't understand what objective is because you keep making suggestions that don't help the objectivity of the topic at all. First you said we should just be averaging everyone's scores. Well, any ? should be able to see that's about the worst thing you can do if you want objective scoring. That way anybody could come in an post whatever fanboyish or haterish scores they wanted and those scores would hold equal weight with the ones from people who are actually following the rules. So if I made a Pac topic and all the Pac fanboys flooded it giving ridiculously high scores, the overall score would be skewed towards Pac love. That would not be an objective score.
Then you said, it shouldn't just be me at the top. It should be a panel with a few more people. Again, that does nothing to change the objectivity of the scores. It just increases representation. But if you're claiming that I'm not being objective, putting 2 - 4 more people up here with me, doesn't make it more objective, it just means that all of our lack of objectivity will clash and make it that much more difficult to come to a consensus.
What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not here making decisions based on how I feel about the rappers, so I'm not being subjective. I established a set of categories and scoring guidelines, and the only thing I'm doing is moderating according to those rules. So if some one comes in this topic and says "Brenda's Got a Baby is the GOAT story, so Pac should get a 5," I'm shooting that down. I don't that because I have some subjective or opinion based disagreement with his statement. I do that because according to the rules, one good story track, no matter how good it is can't make a rapper worthy of a 5. Again, anytime someone has provided a reasonable argument that fulfills the rules of the categories and scoring, I'm made the change. It's not a matter of subjectivity because my opinion of the argument doesn't matter. Again, I raised the score even at times when I thought the argument was bad. So say you don't like how I'm doing this all you want. That's fine. Do it the way you want, but don't say I'm not being objective because clearly you don't know what you're talking about. -
Thank goodness tupac never lead a suicide cult. He could have gotten more people to ? themselves than Jim jones ever could.
-
Here are 10 philanthropic facts, you may have not known about Tupac Shakur:
1. TUPAC & JOSHUA
In 1993, Tupac received a letter from the parents of a dying boy, named Joshua. They said it was Joshua’s last wish to meet Tupac. Tupac flew to Maryland to meet Joshua and took him to a basketball game. Soon after Joshua’s death Tupac renamed his publishing company from Ghetto Gospel Music to Joshua’s Dream.
2. TUPAC’S CELEBRITY YOUTH FOOTBALL LEAGUE
Before his death, Tupac was in the works of developing a Celebrity Youth Football League. Each celebrity involved would sponsor a youth sports team, by buying uniforms and hiring a staff of coaches.
3. A PLACE CALLED HOME
Tupac put together a benefit concert to help a growing non-profit organization, A Place Called Home, raise money for a new building. Founded in 1993, A Place Called Home is a safe haven in South Central LA where at risk youth are empowered to take ownership of the quality and direction of their lives through programs in education.
http://www.apch.org/
4. TUPAC’S SPECIAL BBQ
Through his bodyguard, Tupac heard about a 14-year old girl who was paralyzed from the waist down and confined to a wheelchair after a terrible car accident. Tupac called the Make-A-Wish Foundation to inquire about this little girl. During the phone call, Pac learned the girl was scheduled to meet her celebrity idol, but the celebrity canceled just before the meeting date. Tupac stepped in and flew the girl and her aunt to California to join him on the set of “Gridlock’d.”
Afterwards he took them to the recording studio and later hosted a personal BBQ cookout at his house in honor of her.
Tupac later donated a brand new audio system to her school.
5. TUPAC GOES TO THE PROM
A Tupac fan wrote a letter to his fan club, asking the late rapper to be her prom date. About a month later, Tupac showed up at her doorstep. He came inside the home and talked to her family and offered to purchase her prom dress & ? her to the dance. Before leaving her home, Tupac gave the family $1500.
When her prom day came, Tupac arrived in a limo to pick up his fan. At the school function Tupac signed autographs, took photos, and even got on the dance floor with her for five songs before he left.
6. TUPAC RACES TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM
During a promo tour stop in Washington, DC, as Tupac was on his way back to the airport, he heard on the radio about a young girl who was in the emergency room after being attacked and mauled by a dog. Tupac told the driver to turn around and take him to the hospital where the young girl was located. He stayed with her and her family until she fully recovered.
7. TUPAC STARTS PETITION TO KEEP COMMUNITY CENTER OPEN
In his early teens, Tupac solicited people to sign a petition to keep a community recreation center open. After accumulating a significant number of signatures the building was torn down anyway in spite of his efforts. This experience helped cultivate Tupac’s vision for a center that would provide a positive environment where young people could learn skills and performing arts. He wanted to call the center Thug Mansion. After his early death, his mother maintained the vision by opening the Tupac Amaru Shakur Foundation in Stone Mountain, Georgia.
8. PUSHED UNITY BEYOND SO-CALLED EAST COAST/WEST COAST BEEF
Tupac was often accused of instigating war between coasts, but there’s plenty evidence to the contrary. In 1996, Pac invited the Boot Camp Clik, the Brooklyn Hip-Hop collective, to record The One Nation album at his summer mansion. The album has never been released, but the effort was definitely there before his death. Furthermore, Pac had rock solid relationships with East Coast folks like Busta Rhymes and Treach from Naughty By Nature. Not exactly philanthropy, but definitely for the greater good.
9. TUPAC’S PARTNERSHIP WITH J COLE
He may not be here in the flesh, but his work continues on.
The Tupac Amaru Shakur Foundation and J Cole’s Dreamville Foundation recently joined forces and started a youth book club in North Carolina. The first book read and discussed was, A Rose that Grew from Concrete. Tupac’s non-profit organization recently celebrated 15 years of serving the community. The center teaches vocal training, ballet, jazz, recording & engineering, theater and creative writing. The nonprofit is still spearheaded by Afeni Shakur. Other family members including Tupac’s sister are active volunteers and staff.
10. TUPAC’S C.O.D.E FOUNDATION
From June 1994 to April 2002, Ms. Erica Ford ran Tupac’s Code Foundation even after the rapper had passed away. Erica, Tupac, and his stepfather Mutulu Shakur, established The Code in 1994. The mission was simply to keep young people out of jail and to decrease “Black on Black” crime.
TO DONATE TO THE TUPAC AMARU FOUNDATION PLEASE VISIT:
http://www.crowdrise.com/TupacAmaruShakurFoundation
-
raheemclassick wrote: »Here are 10 philanthropic facts, you may have not known about Tupac Shakur:
1. TUPAC & JOSHUA
In 1993, Tupac received a letter from the parents of a dying boy, named Joshua. They said it was Joshua’s last wish to meet Tupac. Tupac flew to Maryland to meet Joshua and took him to a basketball game. Soon after Joshua’s death Tupac renamed his publishing company from Ghetto Gospel Music to Joshua’s Dream.
2. TUPAC’S CELEBRITY YOUTH FOOTBALL LEAGUE
Before his death, Tupac was in the works of developing a Celebrity Youth Football League. Each celebrity involved would sponsor a youth sports team, by buying uniforms and hiring a staff of coaches.
3. A PLACE CALLED HOME
Tupac put together a benefit concert to help a growing non-profit organization, A Place Called Home, raise money for a new building. Founded in 1993, A Place Called Home is a safe haven in South Central LA where at risk youth are empowered to take ownership of the quality and direction of their lives through programs in education.
http://www.apch.org/
4. TUPAC’S SPECIAL BBQ
Through his bodyguard, Tupac heard about a 14-year old girl who was paralyzed from the waist down and confined to a wheelchair after a terrible car accident. Tupac called the Make-A-Wish Foundation to inquire about this little girl. During the phone call, Pac learned the girl was scheduled to meet her celebrity idol, but the celebrity canceled just before the meeting date. Tupac stepped in and flew the girl and her aunt to California to join him on the set of “Gridlock’d.”
Afterwards he took them to the recording studio and later hosted a personal BBQ cookout at his house in honor of her.
Tupac later donated a brand new audio system to her school.
5. TUPAC GOES TO THE PROM
A Tupac fan wrote a letter to his fan club, asking the late rapper to be her prom date. About a month later, Tupac showed up at her doorstep. He came inside the home and talked to her family and offered to purchase her prom dress & ? her to the dance. Before leaving her home, Tupac gave the family $1500.
When her prom day came, Tupac arrived in a limo to pick up his fan. At the school function Tupac signed autographs, took photos, and even got on the dance floor with her for five songs before he left.
6. TUPAC RACES TO THE EMERGENCY ROOM
During a promo tour stop in Washington, DC, as Tupac was on his way back to the airport, he heard on the radio about a young girl who was in the emergency room after being attacked and mauled by a dog. Tupac told the driver to turn around and take him to the hospital where the young girl was located. He stayed with her and her family until she fully recovered.
7. TUPAC STARTS PETITION TO KEEP COMMUNITY CENTER OPEN
In his early teens, Tupac solicited people to sign a petition to keep a community recreation center open. After accumulating a significant number of signatures the building was torn down anyway in spite of his efforts. This experience helped cultivate Tupac’s vision for a center that would provide a positive environment where young people could learn skills and performing arts. He wanted to call the center Thug Mansion. After his early death, his mother maintained the vision by opening the Tupac Amaru Shakur Foundation in Stone Mountain, Georgia.
8. PUSHED UNITY BEYOND SO-CALLED EAST COAST/WEST COAST BEEF
Tupac was often accused of instigating war between coasts, but there’s plenty evidence to the contrary. In 1996, Pac invited the Boot Camp Clik, the Brooklyn Hip-Hop collective, to record The One Nation album at his summer mansion. The album has never been released, but the effort was definitely there before his death. Furthermore, Pac had rock solid relationships with East Coast folks like Busta Rhymes and Treach from Naughty By Nature. Not exactly philanthropy, but definitely for the greater good.
9. TUPAC’S PARTNERSHIP WITH J COLE
He may not be here in the flesh, but his work continues on.
The Tupac Amaru Shakur Foundation and J Cole’s Dreamville Foundation recently joined forces and started a youth book club in North Carolina. The first book read and discussed was, A Rose that Grew from Concrete. Tupac’s non-profit organization recently celebrated 15 years of serving the community. The center teaches vocal training, ballet, jazz, recording & engineering, theater and creative writing. The nonprofit is still spearheaded by Afeni Shakur. Other family members including Tupac’s sister are active volunteers and staff.
10. TUPAC’S C.O.D.E FOUNDATION
From June 1994 to April 2002, Ms. Erica Ford ran Tupac’s Code Foundation even after the rapper had passed away. Erica, Tupac, and his stepfather Mutulu Shakur, established The Code in 1994. The mission was simply to keep young people out of jail and to decrease “Black on Black” crime.
TO DONATE TO THE TUPAC AMARU FOUNDATION PLEASE VISIT:
http://www.crowdrise.com/TupacAmaruShakurFoundation
You forgot to mention that Tupac could walk on water and part the seas -
Maybe instead of story telling it should be coherence, your ability to tell a story doesn't necessarily make you a good rapper. Some artist are better at describing than telling straight up stories.
-
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »IceBergTaylor wrote: »Word y'all need to stop complaining clearly its totally fine with him that theres different opinions LOL I do agree with the idea there needs to be a panel but y'all cant kick the ? out of what he started. Add 3 more people and continue with the NEXT artist.
That's the problem he ain't wanna add nobody he wanted I tried to help him out when he first started with the idea becuz I knew this would end up happening but he ain't wanna hear me lol
lol @ trying to help me. You take yourself and this board way too seriously.
Tryna help you out with a good idea is taking the group to seriously??? Ummmmm yea sure whatever you say lol
Bruh, I had a purpose with the series of threads. I explained that purpose. You dudes didn't agree with the methodology, largely because I wouldn't just change the ? you wanted me to. Let's be real, if Jay got all 5s, I would never have heard a peep from you about the topic being executed wrong. If Pac got all 5s, @Sion wouldn't have had a hissy fit and cyber stormed off. But whatever the reason, you guys want something different. I'm cool with that, but you're not helping me by suggesting a methodology that basically does away with any way of ensuring objectivity when my whole purpose was to create an objective ranking system.
Still don't understand what objective is I see that's why this was destined to fail from jump.. And if you gave Jay all 5 I would have laughed at you wtf why would I agree with Jay having all 5s when I didn't give him all 5s myself... And that is the example of how this isn't objective becuz I gave objective answers and reasons but since you didn't agree you dismissed it as fan answers but then wanna say this was a open objective series for everybody....no ? this was you creating all the narratives and deciding what's good enough for you to change or not change my ? that's not a open objective nothing becuz it still all boils down to one person's feelings on what a ranking should be you just taking ppl opinions you agree with into consideration but object would be using opinions you DON'T agree with becuz that would mean it's not all about you but you ain't change nothing till you agreed so again if one person holds all the cards that's not an objective ranking which is why ppl telling you that it needs more then you calling the shots
Being objective doesn't mean everyone gets and equal say or that everyone's opinions are considered equally. Objective means that we have an impartial set of standards and metrics and that decisions are made according to those rules and not anyone's opinions on the rappers themselves. Of course there will be some subjectivity. It's impossible to take it out, but the more defined the rules the less subjective opinions come into play.
You clearly don't understand what objective is because you keep making suggestions that don't help the objectivity of the topic at all. First you said we should just be averaging everyone's scores. Well, any ? should be able to see that's about the worst thing you can do if you want objective scoring. That way anybody could come in an post whatever fanboyish or haterish scores they wanted and those scores would hold equal weight with the ones from people who are actually following the rules. So if I made a Pac topic and all the Pac fanboys flooded it giving ridiculously high scores, the overall score would be skewed towards Pac love. That would not be an objective score.
Then you said, it shouldn't just be me at the top. It should be a panel with a few more people. Again, that does nothing to change the objectivity of the scores. It just increases representation. But if you're claiming that I'm not being objective, putting 2 - 4 more people up here with me, doesn't make it more objective, it just means that all of our lack of objectivity will clash and make it that much more difficult to come to a consensus.
What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not here making decisions based on how I feel about the rappers, so I'm not being subjective. I established a set of categories and scoring guidelines, and the only thing I'm doing is moderating according to those rules. So if some one comes in this topic and says "Brenda's Got a Baby is the GOAT story, so Pac should get a 5," I'm shooting that down. I don't that because I have some subjective or opinion based disagreement with his statement. I do that because according to the rules, one good story track, no matter how good it is can't make a rapper worthy of a 5. Again, anytime someone has provided a reasonable argument that fulfills the rules of the categories and scoring, I'm made the change. It's not a matter of subjectivity because my opinion of the argument doesn't matter. Again, I raised the score even at times when I thought the argument was bad. So say you don't like how I'm doing this all you want. That's fine. Do it the way you want, but don't say I'm not being objective because clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
Fool you not being objective if you making the changes YOU DEEM worthy smmfh...... Gawd you can't be this dense.... If everybody is telling you Pac is a 5 story teller and you saying ok I'll raise it to 4 ? that's not objective becuz you only doing what you feel is best objective would be to put aside what you think is best for what everybody is telling you is best but you haven't done that meaning this hasn't been objective.... I'm off it tho becuz this is starting to turn into talking to a wall smh -
law of averages would do this series good...
-
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »IceBergTaylor wrote: »Word y'all need to stop complaining clearly its totally fine with him that theres different opinions LOL I do agree with the idea there needs to be a panel but y'all cant kick the ? out of what he started. Add 3 more people and continue with the NEXT artist.
That's the problem he ain't wanna add nobody he wanted I tried to help him out when he first started with the idea becuz I knew this would end up happening but he ain't wanna hear me lol
lol @ trying to help me. You take yourself and this board way too seriously.
Tryna help you out with a good idea is taking the group to seriously??? Ummmmm yea sure whatever you say lol
Bruh, I had a purpose with the series of threads. I explained that purpose. You dudes didn't agree with the methodology, largely because I wouldn't just change the ? you wanted me to. Let's be real, if Jay got all 5s, I would never have heard a peep from you about the topic being executed wrong. If Pac got all 5s, @Sion wouldn't have had a hissy fit and cyber stormed off. But whatever the reason, you guys want something different. I'm cool with that, but you're not helping me by suggesting a methodology that basically does away with any way of ensuring objectivity when my whole purpose was to create an objective ranking system.
Still don't understand what objective is I see that's why this was destined to fail from jump.. And if you gave Jay all 5 I would have laughed at you wtf why would I agree with Jay having all 5s when I didn't give him all 5s myself... And that is the example of how this isn't objective becuz I gave objective answers and reasons but since you didn't agree you dismissed it as fan answers but then wanna say this was a open objective series for everybody....no ? this was you creating all the narratives and deciding what's good enough for you to change or not change my ? that's not a open objective nothing becuz it still all boils down to one person's feelings on what a ranking should be you just taking ppl opinions you agree with into consideration but object would be using opinions you DON'T agree with becuz that would mean it's not all about you but you ain't change nothing till you agreed so again if one person holds all the cards that's not an objective ranking which is why ppl telling you that it needs more then you calling the shots
Being objective doesn't mean everyone gets and equal say or that everyone's opinions are considered equally. Objective means that we have an impartial set of standards and metrics and that decisions are made according to those rules and not anyone's opinions on the rappers themselves. Of course there will be some subjectivity. It's impossible to take it out, but the more defined the rules the less subjective opinions come into play.
You clearly don't understand what objective is because you keep making suggestions that don't help the objectivity of the topic at all. First you said we should just be averaging everyone's scores. Well, any ? should be able to see that's about the worst thing you can do if you want objective scoring. That way anybody could come in an post whatever fanboyish or haterish scores they wanted and those scores would hold equal weight with the ones from people who are actually following the rules. So if I made a Pac topic and all the Pac fanboys flooded it giving ridiculously high scores, the overall score would be skewed towards Pac love. That would not be an objective score.
Then you said, it shouldn't just be me at the top. It should be a panel with a few more people. Again, that does nothing to change the objectivity of the scores. It just increases representation. But if you're claiming that I'm not being objective, putting 2 - 4 more people up here with me, doesn't make it more objective, it just means that all of our lack of objectivity will clash and make it that much more difficult to come to a consensus.
What you don't seem to understand is that I'm not here making decisions based on how I feel about the rappers, so I'm not being subjective. I established a set of categories and scoring guidelines, and the only thing I'm doing is moderating according to those rules. So if some one comes in this topic and says "Brenda's Got a Baby is the GOAT story, so Pac should get a 5," I'm shooting that down. I don't that because I have some subjective or opinion based disagreement with his statement. I do that because according to the rules, one good story track, no matter how good it is can't make a rapper worthy of a 5. Again, anytime someone has provided a reasonable argument that fulfills the rules of the categories and scoring, I'm made the change. It's not a matter of subjectivity because my opinion of the argument doesn't matter. Again, I raised the score even at times when I thought the argument was bad. So say you don't like how I'm doing this all you want. That's fine. Do it the way you want, but don't say I'm not being objective because clearly you don't know what you're talking about.
Fool you not being objective if you making the changes YOU DEEM worthy smmfh...... Gawd you can't be this dense.... If everybody is telling you Pac is a 5 story teller and you saying ok I'll raise it to 4 ? that's not objective becuz you only doing what you feel is best objective would be to put aside what you think is best for what everybody is telling you is best but you haven't done that meaning this hasn't been objective.... I'm off it tho becuz this is starting to turn into talking to a wall smh
You have no idea what being objective means. By your example anyone who thinks for themselves instead of just going by popular opinion is incapable of being objective. Go look up objectivity. The word doesn't mean what you think it does. -
I'm not a mathematician but what if you averaged out (mean) every individual category?
So you get the average score for storytelling, the average score for creativity, the average score for lyrics, etc. and then averaged out (mean) all of the averages. Would you get the same final results, or would the final results be different? -
I'm not a mathematician but what if you averaged out (mean) every individual category?
So you get the average score for storytelling, the average score for creativity, the average score for lyrics, etc. and then averaged out (mean) all of the averages. Would you get the same final results, or would the final results be different?
Ok, that's a good question, but I do have a reason for why I didn't do it that way and it is somewhat mathematically based or more accurately it just incorporates a basic understanding of statistics.
So, some have suggested that I could just put the rules and scoring guidelines, let people score accordingly, and average the scores. That's not a bad idea. Since, I've tried to make the rules and scoring guidelines clear, if people actually followed them, then everyone's scores should be somewhat objective. Some of the scoring does require some judgement calls so some subjectivity is necessary and as a result, there would be some variation among the scores. That's fine and in that case a straight average would be ok. You could basically consider the variation among scores as being noise, and averages are good for getting rid of noise.
The problem is that we know for a fact that there are people who come in here and post scores without putting any thought into the category rules or scoring guidelines. They give scores based solely on their opinions and so all objectivity is out of the window. In many cases their scores are much higher or lower than any of the objective opinions, so those scores aren't just noise, they are outliers. An average isn't good for dealing with data with a bunch of outliers, because those outliers skew the average.
Why is that a problem here? Well, for one, as I already mentioned, we know for a fact we have people doing the latter. Just check this thread and count how many "2Pac the GOAT, he gets all 5s" posts there are. Some suggested we just dismiss those post or throw out the outliers. That's fine. The bigger problem is that this board has tons of haters and fanboys who are incapable of being objective. So they will come in here and give what they believe to be honest scores, but those scores will clearly be biased and you can tell by the things they say (e.g. Jay gets a 5 in Storytelling because he's Jay). In these topics, the fanboys are more prevalent than the haters, so it doesn't really balance out. If we just averaged the scores, they'd be skewed up. Now you could argue that if every score is skewed up, then the relative relationship between every artist's score would be the same. The problem there is that not every artist has the same amount of fanboys. We know the Jay, BIG, and Pac fanboys are rabid so maybe it's not such a big deal there, but what happens when we get to artists like Scarface or Cube who don't have the same number of rabid fanboys. Their scores will probably be more accurate, but they won't look to good when measured against the more biased scores. -
Theres too much math involved in this series
Pac top 5 DOA
Imma leave it at that -
Can't wait for the Nas & Kendrick ones emotions will be very high
-
One person tryna control all the ratings is the worse way to do a rating system is what it all boils down to... Nothing is truly objective when one person is the sole judge jury and executioner of everything... It would be like a judge hearing a case from everybody making the final ruling then when they try to appeal the ruling they appealing to the same judge that made the ruling in the first place everybody gotta make their case to you then you make the final ruling then if we appeal we gotta appeal to you about your own ruling..... Ain't nothing about that objective sorry
-
ob·jec·tive
əbˈjektiv/
adjective
adjective: objective
1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"
synonyms: impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral -
Soloman_The_Wise wrote: »ob·jec·tive
əbˈjektiv/
adjective
adjective: objective
1.
(of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.
"historians try to be objective and impartial"
synonyms: impartial, unbiased, unprejudiced, nonpartisan, disinterested, neutral, uninvolved, even-handed, equitable, fair, fair-minded, just, open-minded, dispassionate, detached, neutral
So if you see that definition, you should know why what you guys are saying has nothing to do with objectivity.
One person can be objective (the definition itself is specific to a single person). All objectivity means is that the decisions are made based on facts and not opinions. The whole reason I broke it into categories and had defined scoring guidelines is to reduce the subjectivity needed to produce scores. When I decided whether to change a score or not, it had nothing to do with my opinion on the person's argument. The only thing I considered was whether or not the argument was in line with the rules of the topic. Again, I made changes even when, in my opinion, the person was wrong. I did that because I was being objective. If I was being a dictator like @GetoBoy keeps claiming, I would have only made a change if I agreed with what a poster said.
That said, what he says here:One person tryna control all the ratings is the worse way to do a rating system is what it all boils down to... Nothing is truly objective when one person is the sole judge jury and executioner of everything... It would be like a judge hearing a case from everybody making the final ruling then when they try to appeal the ruling they appealing to the same judge that made the ruling in the first place everybody gotta make their case to you then you make the final ruling then if we appeal we gotta appeal to you about your own ruling..... Ain't nothing about that objective sorry
is not about objectivity. He doesn't seem to know what that word means. However, it is a fair point. There is no appeal process in this topic. So if I shoot down someone's suggestion, there is no way to get a second ruling. However, what he seems to not understand is me ruling on something is supposed to be the last ditch effort for consensus. If the topic worked the way I intended and wrote up in the instructions, you guys would be the one determining whether a change was made by using the reactions to agree or disagree with arguments. If there was a majority agreement between the people active in the topic, I would change the score. It just didn't work out that way, so I usually had to wind up making a decision, and even then, before I made a decision I constantly asked if anyone had any insight they wanted to offere, but no one ever responded. So again, he keeps accusing me of being a dictator largely because a) he doesn't know what the word "objective" means and b) he doesn't understand how the topic was supposed to work and how people aren't even trying to exercise the power they have in the topic. -
I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh -
I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but seriously, What stories does Tupac have besides Brenda's Got A Baby?
-
I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
I get what you're saying here, but that's not how any of these topics have gone down. First of all, there was never any "everybody" saying anything. Even in this topic. Not everyone is saying Pac gets a 5 for storytelling. Only 2 or 3 people are saying that and 2 or 3 people are saying the exact opposite. Second, every request for a score change has to be backed by solid reasoning. Again, if there are three things noted that keep Pac from being a 5 and someone makes a good argument that covers one of those things, that's not going to jump him up to a 5. How much it jumps is subjective though, which is why I always ask if everyone agrees with how much I'm going to adjust in response to the argument. No one ever comments in response. When I've said, "I'm going to raise this score .5, what do ya'll think?" No one responded. So what else do you want me to do?And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh
That makes no sense because if the topic worked the way I intended, I wouldn't be making any decisions at all. Say may score for Pac in Storytelling is a 3. Now say Sion came in and said it should be a 4 and provided his argument. The way the thread is supposed to work is that if there are 12 people in here taking part, then all 12 would use their reactions to vote on Sion's motion. If the majority agreed with his argument, then I would change the score. In other words, like I keep telling you, I'm not supposed to be making any decisions at all. So your reasoning for why it would work makes no sense. The reason it's not working is that people don't really want to do anything that systematic. People really just want to post their scores and have those scores counted towards the end result somehow. And that's fine, it's just not what I was trying to accomplish here.
-
I don't think people should change their scores. Just vote how you feel. If you think Pac is a 5 in storytelling (I don't see how thats possible) then give him a 5.
But out of curiosity, how does he get a 5 in storytelling? -
I'm not trying to be a wise guy, but seriously, What stories does Tupac have besides Brenda's Got A Baby?
He doesn't have a lot. That's why I only gave him a 3. Just look at the songs his supporters keep throwing out. At best, only half of them are actually story tracks, and even out of that half, not all of them carry a narrative through the whole song. This topic has me thinking I have to rethink my stance. I thought Jay fans were the most rabid and unreasonable, but these Pac fans seem to be on another level. I give @GetoBoy a hard time about being a Jay fanboy and I admit I let my personal opinion on his fanboyism cloud my judgement, but he actually did make a good argument in the Jay topic. The Pac fanboys either dismiss arguments altogether in favor of showering him with praise or make up ? like with the story selection. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »I think you confusing me saying it's not objective.... I believe your initial ratings are you being objective but your overall ratings aren't objective becuz none of them are you pulling your own personal feelings out is my point.... If you say Pac is a 3 story teller and EVERYBODY tells you he's a 5 so you say "ok I'll give y'all 4" and leave that as your final rating that's not an objective rating becuz you still had to have your personal feelings apart of it and only wanted to meet in the middle if everybody telling you that you wrong an objective rating would be to give him a 5 that's why having one person can't work becuz when it's just one person 9 times outta 10 they always gonna wanna still have their way some kinda way whether they're right or wrong
I get what you're saying here, but that's not how any of these topics have gone down. First of all, there was never any "everybody" saying anything. Even in this topic. Not everyone is saying Pac gets a 5 for storytelling. Only 2 or 3 people are saying that and 2 or 3 people are saying the exact opposite. Second, every request for a score change has to be backed by solid reasoning. Again, if there are three things noted that keep Pac from being a 5 and someone makes a good argument that covers one of those things, that's not going to jump him up to a 5. How much it jumps is subjective though, which is why I always ask if everyone agrees with how much I'm going to adjust in response to the argument. No one ever comments in response. When I've said, "I'm going to raise this score .5, what do ya'll think?" No one responded. So what else do you want me to do?And I know how it's SUPPOSE to work you just don't understand why it will never work the way you want it to which I tried to tell you when you first started and that's becuz when everybody knows only one person makes all the decisions who you think they all gonna wanna debate??? That one person so your threads will just turn into everybody tryna convince you becuz we all know your opinion is the only one that counts...... There's a reason why courts don't let judges see the appeals to their rulings even if their ruling are objective the appeal won't be becuz you not gonna be able to 100% take your personal feelings away from your initial ruling and make a neural judgement smh
That makes no sense because if the topic worked the way I intended, I wouldn't be making any decisions at all. Say may score for Pac in Storytelling is a 3... Now say Sion came in and said it should be a 4 and provided his argument. The way the thread is supposed to work is that if there are 12 people in here taking part, then all 12 would use their reactions to vote on Sion's motion. If the majority agreed with his argument, then I would change the score. In other words, like I keep telling you, I'm not supposed to be making any decisions at all. So your reasoning for why it would work makes no sense. The reason it's not working is that people don't really want to do anything that systematic. People really just want to post their scores and have those scores counted towards the end result somehow. And that's fine, it's just not what I was trying to accomplish here.
I really wise you could get this part but I see you really won't... Why would ppl debate with Sion if we all know his opinion ain't the one that matters???? Ppl wanna debate the person who holds the fate of the ratings and if that one person is you then that's who everybody gonna go debate with but if everybody knew it was just a avg score then ppl would debate each other becuz everybody would know their scores all count the same... Why would ppl argue with each other when you the sole controller of the scores ppl just gonna cut out the middle man and go straight to the top but again you not understanding that simple logic
