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Where would you guys rate Juan Manuel Marquez as all time great Mexican fighters ?
I'm not to knowledgeable historically about mexican boxers but from what I remember I would say somewhere in their top 5-10
Salvador Sanchez
Ricardo Lopez
JCC
Erik Morales
M.A. Barrera
J.M. Marquez
Those just off the top of my head. -
And that's another point where they hate Floyd. I have JMM top 3 all time as a Mexican fighter also. Floyd beat him coming of a year layoff easy and this was before JMM knocked out Manny. But the excuse was JMM was too small or he was old etc etc. JMM in any era would be a great fighter. Floyd made him look like a journeyman. -
DoubleShotHelix wrote: »
Imo no because most ppl knew that canelo was too young at the time to ? wit floyd, we didnt expect him to get schooled the way he did but most ppl had floyd winning that fight based on experience,canelo is way better now than he was thenI am going with Canelo. But if Canelo wins , does the Floyd loss 1. Be the thing that took Canelo to another level because he learned from that fight ? 2. Does that win vs Canelo actually boost Floyd resume ? And eliminate the GGG would KO mayweather crowd.
People still running with ? excuses I see.
How was Canelo to young and lacking experience when he had 43 fights already going into the fight with Floyd. Floyd himself had 44 fights.
Name me any fighter in the world history of boxing who was still considered too young and lacking experience after 43 fights?
Canelo lost because as most people already knew Floyd was just better had absolutely nothing to do with being too young or not enough experience.
? most of those fights were against nobodys, tell me who he fought that was anywhere near floyds level at the time?? Experience period? Of course, versues elite fighters?? No
? , most fighters in the history of the sport aren't anywhere near Floyd's level.
So wtf are you saying?
Give me an elite fighter he fought? They dont have to be on floyds level, again most ppl had canelo losing because he was fighting c level fighters at most, dude was never really tested
He fought a guy named Sugar Shane before he fought Floyd, you might have heard of him. Kermit cintron, Carlos baldomir and Austin trout when he was still a big deal all before he fought Floyd.... Then he fought Cotto and Lara right after Floyd.... So again wtf are you saying? -
Where would you guys rate Juan Manuel Marquez as all time great Mexican fighters ?
I'm not to knowledgeable historically about mexican boxers but from what I remember I would say somewhere in their top 5-10
Salvador Sanchez
Ricardo Lopez
JCC
Erik Morales
M.A. Barrera
J.M. Marquez
Those just off the top of my head.
Sanchez up there he died so his career ended early ... zarziga and zarate are up there. Lopez for sure -
Where would you guys rate Juan Manuel Marquez as all time great Mexican fighters ?
I'm not to knowledgeable historically about mexican boxers but from what I remember I would say somewhere in their top 5-10
Salvador Sanchez
Ricardo Lopez
JCC
Erik Morales
M.A. Barrera
J.M. Marquez
Those just off the top of my head.
Sanchez up there he died so his career ended early ... zarziga and zarate are up there. Lopez for sure
Forgot about Zarate. -
@Mrslim1 you asking about Marquez and his ranking among mexican atg's made think how I would love to see a racial boxing ATG tournament.
It can be done by era or just ATG rankings for each weight class.
Damn just made me think as great as Floyd is I wouldn't put him on the list ATG at 147. I would have him at 130 & 135. -
Where would you guys rate Juan Manuel Marquez as all time great Mexican fighters ?
Is DLH considered a Mexican fighter or is he like the first cross dressing American world coke head champ?
I don't even think Mexicans consider DLH to be Mexican. He isn't from there and definitely doesn't fight like most Mexican fighters. -
DoubleShotHelix wrote: »Where would you guys rate Juan Manuel Marquez as all time great Mexican fighters ?
Is DLH considered a Mexican fighter or is he like the first cross dressing American world coke head champ?
I don't even think Mexicans consider DLH to be Mexican. He isn't from there and definitely doesn't fight like most Mexican fighters.
nah never hear his name mentioned as a "Mexican fighter". they don't claim him! -
https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/9/5/16257556/showtimes-stephen-espinoza-discusses-unprofessional-comments-from-conor-mcgregor-dana-whiteShowtime’s Stephen Espinoza discusses ‘unprofessional’ comments from Conor McGregor, relationship with Dana White
There was a palpable tension between Showtime and the UFC during the MayMac World Tour in July and later during the Floyd Mayweather vs. Conor McGregor fight week.
McGregor himself called Showtime executive Stephen Espinoza a “weasel” on stage after his microphone did not work on one stop of the tour. UFC president Dana White and Espinoza exchanged some harsh words in the media. Even as late as the day of the boxing match, White said Showtime was doing things to mess with the UFC.
Espinoza, the executive vice president and general manager of Showtime Sports, told Ariel Helwani on Monday’s episode of The MMA Hour that what bothered him most was McGregor blasting his network during the tour, not necessarily some of the things said about him personally.
“I know my staff and I know the kind of people who work for us,” Espinoza said. “On that timeframe, on those 72 days, there are literally dozens of people who are giving up dinners with their kids, time with their spouses, giving up things that they would rather do with their nights and weekends for the success of this pay per view, which ultimately the bulk of that money is going to Floyd and Conor. And making them both very rich men.
“So to have Conor insult them, by extension, to say ‘f’ Showtime or whatever, when there’s an entire team of people who are making personal sacrifices to make sure his event is successful and generates money for him, it just seemed a really short-sighted comment and really unprofessional.”
Espinoza said he had conversations during the tour backstage with McGregor’s manager Audie Attar and White about the situation. He said he never asked McGregor to stop his rhetoric, nor spoke to McGregor directly at all during the lead up to the fight. And the discussions with White were not always negative, but there were a number of disagreements over the course of the fight build up, he said.
“The reality, there’s just different ways of doing things,” Espinoza said. “It’s not one sport versus the other. It’s two different businesses, two different organizations and how they do things. There will be a miscommunication and differences of opinion. There were both along the way. Sometimes they were very pleasant and collegial. Sometimes they were more blunt and a little gruff. But it was a thing for the most part that was really out of the ordinary for this event. It’s making sausage. It’s an ugly process sometimes.”
Though McGregor focused some vitriol at him on multiple stops of the World Tour, Espinoza said that did not get to him much. It was really the attacks on his staff, Espinoza said, that affected him.
“It bothered me a little bit,” Espinoza said. “I think anyone who is personally insulted is bothered. But I’ve been called a lot worse by people I respect more than Conor, so that in itself wasn’t a big issue to me. What bothered me about the whole thing was his comments about Showtime.”
Despite some of the drama over the entire summer, Espinoza said the UFC was not bad to work with at all. When asked what was more difficult, working with the UFC or working with HBO in the lead up to Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao, Espinoza said it wasn’t even in the same arena. HBO was far tougher, he said.
“It’s not even comparable,” Espinoza said. “The UFC experience was so much more positive and collegial. And the promotion overall went a lot smoother. It wasn’t really even close.” -
@Mrslim1 you asking about Marquez and his ranking among mexican atg's made think how I would love to see a racial boxing ATG tournament.
It can be done by era or just ATG rankings for each weight class.
Damn just made me think as great as Floyd is I wouldn't put him on the list ATG at 147. I would have him at 130 & 135.
Yea as great as Floyd was he was in his prime at 130 -140. Ray Leonard and hearns at 25 were full sized 147 pounders in their prime . 135 Duran vs Mayweather would be a dream fight more so than Leonard and those guys. Imo -
stringer bell wrote: »https://www.mmafighting.com/2017/9/5/16257556/showtimes-stephen-espinoza-discusses-unprofessional-comments-from-conor-mcgregor-dana-whiteShowtime’s Stephen Espinoza discusses ‘unprofessional’ comments from Conor McGregor, relationship with Dana White
There was a palpable tension between Showtime and the UFC during the MayMac World Tour in July and later during the Floyd Mayweather vs. Conor McGregor fight week.
McGregor himself called Showtime executive Stephen Espinoza a “weasel” on stage after his microphone did not work on one stop of the tour. UFC president Dana White and Espinoza exchanged some harsh words in the media. Even as late as the day of the boxing match, White said Showtime was doing things to mess with the UFC.
Espinoza, the executive vice president and general manager of Showtime Sports, told Ariel Helwani on Monday’s episode of The MMA Hour that what bothered him most was McGregor blasting his network during the tour, not necessarily some of the things said about him personally.
“I know my staff and I know the kind of people who work for us,” Espinoza said. “On that timeframe, on those 72 days, there are literally dozens of people who are giving up dinners with their kids, time with their spouses, giving up things that they would rather do with their nights and weekends for the success of this pay per view, which ultimately the bulk of that money is going to Floyd and Conor. And making them both very rich men.
“So to have Conor insult them, by extension, to say ‘f’ Showtime or whatever, when there’s an entire team of people who are making personal sacrifices to make sure his event is successful and generates money for him, it just seemed a really short-sighted comment and really unprofessional.”
Espinoza said he had conversations during the tour backstage with McGregor’s manager Audie Attar and White about the situation. He said he never asked McGregor to stop his rhetoric, nor spoke to McGregor directly at all during the lead up to the fight. And the discussions with White were not always negative, but there were a number of disagreements over the course of the fight build up, he said.
“The reality, there’s just different ways of doing things,” Espinoza said. “It’s not one sport versus the other. It’s two different businesses, two different organizations and how they do things. There will be a miscommunication and differences of opinion. There were both along the way. Sometimes they were very pleasant and collegial. Sometimes they were more blunt and a little gruff. But it was a thing for the most part that was really out of the ordinary for this event. It’s making sausage. It’s an ugly process sometimes.”
Though McGregor focused some vitriol at him on multiple stops of the World Tour, Espinoza said that did not get to him much. It was really the attacks on his staff, Espinoza said, that affected him.
“It bothered me a little bit,” Espinoza said. “I think anyone who is personally insulted is bothered. But I’ve been called a lot worse by people I respect more than Conor, so that in itself wasn’t a big issue to me. What bothered me about the whole thing was his comments about Showtime.”
Despite some of the drama over the entire summer, Espinoza said the UFC was not bad to work with at all. When asked what was more difficult, working with the UFC or working with HBO in the lead up to Mayweather vs. Manny Pacquiao, Espinoza said it wasn’t even in the same arena. HBO was far tougher, he said.
“It’s not even comparable,” Espinoza said. “The UFC experience was so much more positive and collegial. And the promotion overall went a lot smoother. It wasn’t really even close.”
Espinoza needs to ? and cash the check. MacGregor did exactly what he was supposed to do to sell that overhyped sparring session. Cash the check and get the ? off stage. -
DoubleShotHelix wrote: »DoubleShotHelix wrote: »
Imo no because most ppl knew that canelo was too young at the time to ? wit floyd, we didnt expect him to get schooled the way he did but most ppl had floyd winning that fight based on experience,canelo is way better now than he was thenI am going with Canelo. But if Canelo wins , does the Floyd loss 1. Be the thing that took Canelo to another level because he learned from that fight ? 2. Does that win vs Canelo actually boost Floyd resume ? And eliminate the GGG would KO mayweather crowd.
People still running with ? excuses I see.
How was Canelo to young and lacking experience when he had 43 fights already going into the fight with Floyd. Floyd himself had 44 fights.
Name me any fighter in the world history of boxing who was still considered too young and lacking experience after 43 fights?
Canelo lost because as most people already knew Floyd was just better had absolutely nothing to do with being too young or not enough experience.
? most of those fights were against nobodys, tell me who he fought that was anywhere near floyds level at the time?? Experience period? Of course, versues elite fighters?? No
? , most fighters in the history of the sport aren't anywhere near Floyd's level.
So wtf are you saying?
Give me an elite fighter he fought? They dont have to be on floyds level, again most ppl had canelo losing because he was fighting c level fighters at most, dude was never really tested
He fought a guy named Sugar Shane before he fought Floyd, you might have heard of him. Kermit cintron, Carlos baldomir and Austin trout when he was still a big deal all before he fought Floyd.... Then he fought Cotto and Lara right after Floyd.... So again wtf are you saying?
Lol wtf??? Mayweather fought shane BEFORE canelo you wack ass ? , ? outta here, and baldomir was way passed his prime when canelo fought him thats why he knocked his ass out, get ur ? straight before you try and talk ? , not even gonna respond to you anymore based on that -
I knew Kevin Hart was short.. but damn Floyd is towering over that ? ... -
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DoubleShotHelix wrote: »DoubleShotHelix wrote: »
Imo no because most ppl knew that canelo was too young at the time to ? wit floyd, we didnt expect him to get schooled the way he did but most ppl had floyd winning that fight based on experience,canelo is way better now than he was thenI am going with Canelo. But if Canelo wins , does the Floyd loss 1. Be the thing that took Canelo to another level because he learned from that fight ? 2. Does that win vs Canelo actually boost Floyd resume ? And eliminate the GGG would KO mayweather crowd.
People still running with ? excuses I see.
How was Canelo to young and lacking experience when he had 43 fights already going into the fight with Floyd. Floyd himself had 44 fights.
Name me any fighter in the world history of boxing who was still considered too young and lacking experience after 43 fights?
Canelo lost because as most people already knew Floyd was just better had absolutely nothing to do with being too young or not enough experience.
? most of those fights were against nobodys, tell me who he fought that was anywhere near floyds level at the time?? Experience period? Of course, versues elite fighters?? No
? , most fighters in the history of the sport aren't anywhere near Floyd's level.
So wtf are you saying?
Give me an elite fighter he fought? They dont have to be on floyds level, again most ppl had canelo losing because he was fighting c level fighters at most, dude was never really tested
He fought a guy named Sugar Shane before he fought Floyd, you might have heard of him. Kermit cintron, Carlos baldomir and Austin trout when he was still a big deal all before he fought Floyd.... Then he fought Cotto and Lara right after Floyd.... So again wtf are you saying?
Lol wtf??? Mayweather fought shane BEFORE canelo you wack ass ? , ? outta here, and baldomir was way passed his prime when canelo fought him thats why he knocked his ass out, get ur ? straight before you try and talk ? , not even gonna respond to you anymore based on that
You're clearly an idiot Canelo definitely fought Shane before he fought Floyd. Which is what you asked who did cinnamon fight of note before he fought Floyd.
He fought Shane, Kermit, baldomir and beat them easily before he fought Floyd. Now tell me more about how Canelo hadn't fought anyone of status prior to Floyd.
-
stringer bell wrote: »
Also hearing the ppv didn't do what they expected -
http://www.boxingscene.com/pbc-sets-long-day-boxing-with-separate-shows-october-14--120211PBC Sets Long Day of Boxing With Separate Shows on 10/14
Let's play two! Boxing fans will have the rare opportunity to enjoy a boxing doubleheader with two separate live shows on different networks that will showcase five world championship matches from coast to coast on Saturday, October 14 presented by Premier Boxing Champions.
In the first show, sensational featherweight champion Leo Santa Cruz (33-1-1, 18 KOs) will defend his world title against Chris Avalos (27-5, 20 KOs), while three-division world champion Abner Mares (30-2-1, 15 KOs) defends his 126-pound belt against once-beaten Andres Gutierrez (35-1-1, 25 KOs) at StubHub Center in Carson, California in primetime on FOX & FOX Deportes at 7:30 p.m. ET/4:30 p.m. PT.
Following that will be a scintillating 154-pound world championship tripleheader on SHOWTIME CHAMPIONSHIP BOXING live on SHOWTIME from Barclays Center in Brooklyn at 10 p.m. ET/7 p.m. PT.
Erislandy Lara (24-2-2, 14 KOs), arguably the most-skilled boxer in the division and the longest reigning world champion, will headline and defend his title against undefeated 2012 U.S. Olympian Terrell Gausha (20-0, 9 KOs). Hard-hitting undefeated champion Jermell Charlo (29-0, 14 KOs) will take on top contender Erickson Lubin (18-0, 13 KOs) while Jarrett Hurd (20-0, 14 KOs) will make his first title defense against tough former world champion Austin Trout (30-3, 17 KOs).
"It's a common occurrence in Major League Baseball, the NFL and the NBA to be able to watch two or three games back-to-back on the same day, but it is rare in boxing to watch back-to-back live shows from two locations on the same day,'' said Tim Smith, VP of Communications for Haymon Boxing. "This is a unique opportunity for boxing fans to watch two separate live cards on two different networks from both U.S. coasts, featuring five world championship matches in the 126-pound and 154-pound division - two of the hottest divisions in boxing. If you're a boxing fan you're going to want to get your popcorn ready for October 14.''
All five of the featured championship matches hold major significance in the future for the winners.
If Santa Cruz and Mares win their respective matches, they have both agreed to terms to meet in a highly anticipated rematch and featherweight title consolidation bout in early 2018. Santa Cruz won a hard-fought, narrow decision against Mares in 2015.
The 154-pound title tripleheader features four undefeated boxers and the very best the division has to offer. The winners in each match will face each other in the future to determine which one will eventually be the undisputed 154-pound world champion. -
DoubleShotHelix wrote: »DoubleShotHelix wrote: »DoubleShotHelix wrote: »
Imo no because most ppl knew that canelo was too young at the time to ? wit floyd, we didnt expect him to get schooled the way he did but most ppl had floyd winning that fight based on experience,canelo is way better now than he was thenI am going with Canelo. But if Canelo wins , does the Floyd loss 1. Be the thing that took Canelo to another level because he learned from that fight ? 2. Does that win vs Canelo actually boost Floyd resume ? And eliminate the GGG would KO mayweather crowd.
People still running with ? excuses I see.
How was Canelo to young and lacking experience when he had 43 fights already going into the fight with Floyd. Floyd himself had 44 fights.
Name me any fighter in the world history of boxing who was still considered too young and lacking experience after 43 fights?
Canelo lost because as most people already knew Floyd was just better had absolutely nothing to do with being too young or not enough experience.
? most of those fights were against nobodys, tell me who he fought that was anywhere near floyds level at the time?? Experience period? Of course, versues elite fighters?? No
? , most fighters in the history of the sport aren't anywhere near Floyd's level.
So wtf are you saying?
Give me an elite fighter he fought? They dont have to be on floyds level, again most ppl had canelo losing because he was fighting c level fighters at most, dude was never really tested
He fought a guy named Sugar Shane before he fought Floyd, you might have heard of him. Kermit cintron, Carlos baldomir and Austin trout when he was still a big deal all before he fought Floyd.... Then he fought Cotto and Lara right after Floyd.... So again wtf are you saying?
Lol wtf??? Mayweather fought shane BEFORE canelo you wack ass ? , ? outta here, and baldomir was way passed his prime when canelo fought him thats why he knocked his ass out, get ur ? straight before you try and talk ? , not even gonna respond to you anymore based on that
You're clearly an idiot Canelo definitely fought Shane before he fought Floyd. Which is what you asked who did cinnamon fight of note before he fought Floyd.
He fought Shane, Kermit, baldomir and beat them easily before he fought Floyd. Now tell me more about how Canelo hadn't fought anyone of status prior to Floyd.
Your correct on that, i was thinking bout floyd fighting shane first, my mistake, but shane was past his prime when floyd fought him,.so later on when shane fought canelo??? .comon now, Thats not a notable win, kermit??? Really??? And baldmir was even more past his prime than shane was!! You just goin by names, no matter where they was at in they career,.and again it goes back to my point, no elite figthers, before floyd, you cant count names just cause they names, why do you think that floyd gets so much ? for his record?? Because ppl throw out the "cherrypickin" "fought nobody in theyre prime" ? , If floyd fought again and got smashed by crawford for example, is crawford gonna get credit for that? Or did he fight an old past his prime floyd so its expected?? Hell if mcgregor won wed just say that ? old and way past his prime, now im done wit this convo -
stringer bell wrote: »
Also hearing the ppv didn't do what they expected
I figured the gate wouldnt be as much as they thought, the tickets prices was ? insane, but i bet the ppv buys will still be #2 of all time which is still amazing for what it was -
I am going with Canelo. But if Canelo wins , does the Floyd loss 1. Be the thing that took Canelo to another level because he learned from that fight ? 2. Does that win vs Canelo actually boost Floyd resume ? And eliminate the GGG would KO mayweather crowd.
GGG probably would knock Floyd out though. ? came in light as ? for a 154 fight. GGG would just be too big. They make weight classes for a reason
Had Floyd faced GGG at the same time he faced Canelo, the outcome would be the same, Floyd way to smart in that ring and Floyd got too much skill for GGG to get that W, he has in his arsenal, ? that just can´t be taught and just too intelligent for them. -
And that's another point where they hate Floyd. I have JMM top 3 all time as a Mexican fighter also. Floyd beat him coming of a year layoff easy and this was before JMM knocked out Manny. But the excuse was JMM was too small or he was old etc etc. JMM in any era would be a great fighter. Floyd made him look like a journeyman.
Yep, they love to make the excuses, but facts are that Floyd was coming of a long layoff, after sitting down in the bing and this was before JMM put Manny to sleep, yet Floyd made easy work of him, completely outclassed him, one of my fav performances from Money. -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pE86UFB4EkoErickson "The Hammer" Lubin is Ranked #1 in WBC + Will Fight Jermell Charlo in October -
international wrote: »
And that's another point where they hate Floyd. I have JMM top 3 all time as a Mexican fighter also. Floyd beat him coming of a year layoff easy and this was before JMM knocked out Manny. But the excuse was JMM was too small or he was old etc etc. JMM in any era would be a great fighter. Floyd made him look like a journeyman.
Yep, they love to make the excuses, but facts are that Floyd was coming of a long layoff, after sitting down in the bing and this was before JMM put Manny to sleep, yet Floyd made easy work of him, completely outclassed him, one of my fav performances from Money.
Totally outclassed JMM. I wished he would have threw more punches but other than that he made JMM a after thought. People don't even mention that fight because Floyd made it look so easy. -
Yo to all the real boxing fans !!
I have a question,
do you believe it's possible for a fighter to win/knock somebody out with a lucky punch ??
I ask because I've been watching boxing for well over 20 years, and I've never seen a boxer win by a lucky punch..
The closest I think would be a "lucky" punch would be when George Foreman knocked out Michael Moorer, but I don't think that was some lucky ? ..
https://youtu.be/JxdtjsWNOWY
What past fight would you consider a win by "lucky" punch ??
A "lucky" punch is a term that has been poplularized by the media to discuss a punch they can't understand
JMM's punch against Pacquiao
They called Buster Douglas lucky against Tyson
Countless other fights
A "lucky" punch cant be lucky if it was thrown to hit the target
Theres no such thing as a lucky punch in the fight game
