The Official Biggie Vs Jay-Z Thread...

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  • Kwan Dai
    Kwan Dai Members Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    D-Jack wrote: »
    Now, what about Rakim and Big Daddy Kane?? Didn't have soul in their music, did they???

    Only Pete Rock & C.L. Smooth, Gangstarr, Wu-Tang, Scarface, Outkast, and etc.

    I believe they did if, you consider they had songs that sampled James Brown the ? Father of Soul. I think Pete Rock etc being from what I would call the next generation took sampling in a different direction considering James Brown had been sampled to death. So, the later artist you mentioned began exploring other Soul Music makers.
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  • Kwan Dai
    Kwan Dai Members Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    garv wrote: »
    In my opinion emotion has nothing to do with being lyrical, and even so Biggie and Jay-Z have expressed emotion on tracks before, Nas who is my favourite rapper rarely expressed emotion until after his first two albums.

    I agree, that emotion doesn't=lyrical. I think there iis some confusion between a song that invokes emotion and an artists ability to deliver his/her lyrics with a emotion. I agree that Nas didn't deliver his lyrics with much emotion but I'll be damned if, his Music since Illmatic didn't invoke emotions within the listener. Life's a ? and One Love were pretty emotional joints imo.
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  • a_list
    a_list Members Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    damn...for the longest time within hip hop lyrical meant wordplay, vocab, similies and other technical ? .....how about we start using the dictionary definitions for all slang....
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  • Kwan Dai
    Kwan Dai Members Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    D-Jack wrote: »
    Talent is talent, you cannot mix relativity in music. YOu have to recognize the talent.

    Explain? I am missing your point here. Are you saying that Rakim and Kane weren't talented?
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  • Kwan Dai
    Kwan Dai Members Posts: 6,929 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    a_list wrote: »
    damn...for the longest time within hip hop lyrical meant wordplay, vocab, similies and other technical ? .....how about we start using the dictionary definitions for all slang....

    I agree with this. How an MC delivered his/her lyrics was simply a matter of taste. I know some people preferred KRS over Kane because, KRS was more aggressive and had a bigger voice. While others preferred Kane because,was laid back and smooth.
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  • jonlakadeadmic
    jonlakadeadmic Members Posts: 4,735 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    talik23 wrote: »
    so u wouldnt consider this emotional songs........
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZ-tqRzenPQ

    dude i agree with you, read what i said again

    i was questioning people who think he doesnt have emotional songs
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  • a_list
    a_list Members Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Johnny Green VI wrote: »
    How about we not consider hip hop slang but an artform and use accepted definitions for depicting art when speaking about hip hop? Unless you don't want to consider hip hop an artform, then I'd completely agree with you.

    Im just going by what I learned a long time ago, sun....just dropped my 2cent.....proceed
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  • H-Rap 180
    H-Rap 180 Members Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Johnny Green VI wrote: »
    Yeah, just listen to any Jay-Z song with Scarface and Beans on the same track and you'll see how outta place Jay seems because he doesn't put any emotion in his music at all.

    "Baby mama water burst, baby came out still born, still I gotta move on/though my heart still torn" said that without a tinge of emotion in his voice. Where the hell is his soul, maybe he really did sell it to the devil :( Only time Jay has rapped with some emotion was on Blueprint 2 when he was displaying anger after being Ethered.

    Jiggers effeminate voice never conveyed emotion to my eardrum, and Biggie struggling to breathe while rapping about having sex with a ? was torture to my ears.
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  • juelz21
    juelz21 Members Posts: 2,455 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    a_list wrote: »
    damn...for the longest time within hip hop lyrical meant wordplay, vocab, similies and other technical ? .....how about we start using the dictionary definitions for all slang....

    thank you.
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  • Melanin_Enriched
    Melanin_Enriched Members Posts: 22,868 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Emotion goes into the delivery section. Delivery =/=Lyrical
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  • ShencotheMC
    ShencotheMC Members Posts: 26,051 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    King Drew wrote: »
    Emotion goes into the delivery section. Delivery =/=Lyrical

    /Close thread
    C'mon Johnny this was pathetic my mans
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  • DanknDrank
    DanknDrank Members Posts: 3,269 ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Cain_Marko wrote: »
    If we going by raw emotion only then DMX is the GOAT

    the only thing DMX is passionate about is sucking that ? forbidden glass ?
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  • rapmastermind
    rapmastermind Members Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    It's impossible to listen to an album like "Ready To Die" and find no emotion in it. I mean "Suicidal Thoughts" alone is more emotional than a lot records in Hip Hop. Both Biggie LP's are filled with emotion. The problem is some of you have an issue with emotion that has negativity. Not all emotions are positive or convey position messages. Emotion is a broad brush. Biggie did a great job of convey the emotion of fear "Warning", depression "Everyday Struggle", "Ready To Die". Even the emotion of making it in life "Juicy". "Life After Death" had some amazing emotional records like "Miss U, Sky's the Limit and My Downfall". Now Jay gave you emotion from the jump also like "Regrets" on "Reasonable Doubt". I mean i'm trying to understand the question of the thread? Cause is this to say Pac was more lyrical than Big and Jay cause his records had more emotion?, I don't know about that. Also the Dictionary does not fly when defining Hip Hop. A majority of Hip Hop Slang is not even considered words in the dictionary.

    So Yes though and aspect of Lyricism is defined as conveying emotion, Hip Hop makes it's own definitions and lyricism in Hip Hop is defined as the way the emcee puts his words together, with wordplay and metaphors. Sure Emotion is apart if but most lyricist didn't need to convey strong emotion to be Lyrical. NaS wasn't every emotional on "ILLmatic" outside of "One Love" yet it's one of the most lyrical albums ever. Canibus is very rarely emotional on his songs and he's one of the best lyricist. Dictionaries don't define Hip Hop, We Do, The Culture does and the culture defines lyricism as more than just convey emotion. The biggest reasons Biggie is one of the most beloved rappers is Most fans "FELT" what he had to say which means they are emotionally attached to his words. Jay though not as emotional as Biggie or Pac managed to grow into more emotional records as his career went on. NaS is the same. Pac was emotional from jump but wasn't as lyrical, he grew as a lyricist. At the end of the day Biggie and Jay Z wouldn't be as Iconic as they are if people didn't FELL There music, therefor they do convey emotion.
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  • H-Rap 180
    H-Rap 180 Members Posts: 15,452 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Johnny Green VI wrote: »
    I always thought Jay was very emotional sounding in this clip
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffDDbEJAEIg

    Damn....he put his heart and soul in that, stuttering, stammering, and at a lost for words....

    I wonder what Nas said that hurt his soul so badly because the Camel-jockey-jigger-Stans say that "Ether" was all lies.

    Foxxys underage ? had that jigga-boo hott!
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  • rapmastermind
    rapmastermind Members Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Also the person who brought up DMX is also right. X wasn't the strongest lyricist but as far as emotion, how wasn't he one of the most emotional rappers of all time? Again Emotion is what connects a rapper's message or words to the fan but Lyricism goes way deeper than emotion which is why when Lyricism is brought up in Hip Hop we discuss it from more a technical standpoint.
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  • a_list
    a_list Members Posts: 4,886 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    knew that the trolls in these cats would come out eventually.....gotta put up a better fascade....lol
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  • buttuh_b
    buttuh_b Members Posts: 13,544 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Cosign OP.....
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  • rapmastermind
    rapmastermind Members Posts: 5,574 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3ifsQOFiPw


    Jay doesn't have emotion, yet his debut album had this deep track? Even "D'evils" was emotional just from a negative standpoint since he was talking about demons affecting his conscious.
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  • T. Sanford
    T. Sanford Guests, Members, Writer, Content Producer Posts: 25,291 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    cosign thread, Jay-Z dont have any emotion in his music
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  • ICame4Pussy
    ICame4Pussy Members Posts: 6,875 ✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Somebody was supposed to tell this story in another thread. Can anyone tell me what that the hell happened in that story?
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  • DMTxTHC
    DMTxTHC Members Posts: 14,218 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    I never heard of this story...this should be interesting
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  • TRILLip Brooks
    TRILLip Brooks Members Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    sound like duck tales, link up
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  • sapp08_2001
    sapp08_2001 Members Posts: 7,566 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    Idk but sounds intresting. Sumbody tell the story
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  • Disciplined InSight
    Disciplined InSight Members Posts: 13,478 ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    They ? Kim?
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  • Brova
    Brova Members Posts: 3,171 ✭✭
    edited May 2011
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    I remember hearin about this. Jay referenced it in a song but I forget which one.

    Basically Jay and Puff had to stop Big from beatin on Kim
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