"Even if I say yes, it doesn't mean I mean yes" - Feminists
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Comments
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BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »@desertrain10
I have three questions.
1. Where was all the "sane" black feminist when the "extreme" black feminist went on national T.V and embarrassed the movement and our race AT THE SAME DAMN TIME!!? Like somebody said already, didn't see too many of these "sane" black feminist denouncing them. We mostly seen "you go girl!, talk to'em!!!". Now this was the worst blow to "SANE" black feminist ever. How come you guys didn't ban together and expose these lunatic THOTS in "sane" feminist clothing? where's the "sane" black feminist N.B.C special?
2. Since a lot of positive gentlemen(such as myself) have a lot of the same views(some are completely stupid though) on female equality as you. Can a male be a feminist too?
3. How would you feel about men starting a "masculinist" movement. It would focus on how men are
- Treated unfairly by women when it comes to paying the bill/tab on a date
- Treated unfairly during a pregnancy and having little say in the matter
- Treated unfairly by the law compared to women
- Paying more for our car insurance than women
- Treated unfairly in a fight with a women(physical, mental, or emotional)
- Treated unfairly when it comes to child custody and child support
- Treated unfairly when it comes to sexual advances in any form towards a woman depending on how she's feeling
- Looked down upon by most women for not having a car or not having their own place
- Expected to keep a cool head while woman act a complete fool
- Expected to treat a woman like gold, chase them, and try to impress them instead of it being the other way around
- Painted as cheaters and dead beat parents. While females are painted as fragile victims and the strong/loyal half
- Having our maturity lowered beneath a woman's level of maturity. When we see everyday that this is far from the truth.
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[img][/img]
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SixSickSins is a feminist. Flaggin everybody and ? . Anyway most feminists are ignorant.
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Supreme_Gentleman wrote: »[img][/img]
Jesus Christ -
SixSickSins wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Smh
We are all guilty of making hast generalizations at times, but the generalizing about feminism has reached an all time high... and so has the hostility
Yes there has been extremist out there who have tried to hijack the term...but sometimes I just don't get the hate
At the end of the day, feminism is not a political party or an organization like the naacp...its just an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women....though I and a another woman may label ourselves feminist, it is also possible and highly probable we share differing view points, ideologies
I myself have been highly inspired by the writings of angela davis ...my favorite feminist
With that said, besides the fact they are female students, why do you consider them to be representative of the feminist movement?
As far as consent goes, yes means yes...no means no....however silence doesn't necessarily mean 'yes' ... you have to take body language into considerationon the i.c. men feel like they're being oppressed by women and militant feminists pose a real threat to their lives. it's absurd.
❤
Thank goodness some people have a brain.
This is just another thread to foment hatred and mistrust towards feminists as a whole under the guise "well, I didn't indicate all feminists". So pathetic. That would be like me making a thread about how all Black men are horrible, absentee fathers--even though that's the furthest thing from the truth. Constantly making threads highlighting the bad of a certain population does nothing to initiate intelligent conversation on issues that truly deserve to be discussed. All you men are doing are giving an outreach platform to the women you literally violently hate--feeding the trolls a most decadent meal, so to speak.
I, and others such as @desertrain10, are up for also speaking on men's issues that remain underrepresented, but it's hard to get anywhere with a collective, limited, and destructive groupthink of "? ain't ? ", "women are juveniles who lack logic", etc. There are posts in here saying women deserve to be physically harmed to beat them back into reality. Who really hates who? Because a lot of y'all men are sounding like woman-haters.
When there's an intelligent, healthy discussion on the real issues at hand, @ me.
You claim you want intelligent conversation but call people who disagree brainless, despite the fact that they are alive and a brain is necessary for life
Your comparison is wrong too
It is not like you saying all black men are horrible, it would be like you saying certain black men believe a certain thing
I don't hate these women, their bad logic is thread worthy though
The Op makes no value judgments about Feminism as a whole, or even these women
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Supreme_Gentleman wrote: »[img][/img]
Violence is violence...don't matter the source.
And women hold ALL the power in that situation. Because they control if that dude keeps freedom or not.
Cut it out. -
Osirus_Jenkins wrote: »Supreme_Gentleman wrote: »[img][/img]
Feminazis explain this ? here...
We don't have any here
Loca is probably the closest we have to a Dworkin -
Six was in this ? like
I've never seen so many flags in one thread before -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
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SixSickSins wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Smh
We are all guilty of making hast generalizations at times, but the generalizing about feminism has reached an all time high... and so has the hostility
Yes there has been extremist out there who have tried to hijack the term...but sometimes I just don't get the hate
At the end of the day, feminism is not a political party or an organization like the naacp...its just an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women....though I and a another woman may label ourselves feminist, it is also possible and highly probable we share differing view points, ideologies
I myself have been highly inspired by the writings of angela davis ...my favorite feminist
With that said, besides the fact they are female students, why do you consider them to be representative of the feminist movement?
As far as consent goes, yes means yes...no means no....however silence doesn't necessarily mean 'yes' ... you have to take body language into considerationon the i.c. men feel like they're being oppressed by women and militant feminists pose a real threat to their lives. it's absurd.
❤
Thank goodness some people have a brain.
This is just another thread to foment hatred and mistrust towards feminists as a whole under the guise "well, I didn't indicate all feminists". So pathetic. That would be like me making a thread about how all Black men are horrible, absentee fathers--even though that's the furthest thing from the truth. Constantly making threads highlighting the bad of a certain population does nothing to initiate intelligent conversation on issues that truly deserve to be discussed. All you men are doing are giving an outreach platform to the women you literally violently hate--feeding the trolls a most decadent meal, so to speak.
I, and others such as @desertrain10, are up for also speaking on men's issues that remain underrepresented, but it's hard to get anywhere with a collective, limited, and destructive groupthink of "? ain't ? ", "women are juveniles who lack logic", etc. There are posts in here saying women deserve to be physically harmed to beat them back into reality. Who really hates who? Because a lot of y'all men are sounding like woman-haters.
When there's an intelligent, healthy discussion on the real issues at hand, @ me.
You claim you want intelligent conversation but call people who disagree brainless, despite the fact that they are alive and a brain is necessary for life
Your comparison is wrong too
It is not like you saying all black men are horrible, it would be like you saying certain black men believe a certain thing
I don't hate these women, their bad logic is thread worthy though
The Op makes no value judgments about Feminism as a whole, or even these women
Simply being born black doesn't have any inherent affect on the type of person you are ...or what type of belief structure you follow or any personality characteristics.... HOWEVER subscribing to a particular ideology is a conciencious choice open to scrutiny like any other conciencious choice one would make ...it's not a result of biological osmosis ...so at the very least comparing the two things would appear to be a not so well executed false equivalence -
BARON_$AMEDI wrote: »@desertrain10
I have three questions.
1. Where was all the "sane" black feminist when the "extreme" black feminist went on national T.V and embarrassed the movement and our race AT THE SAME DAMN TIME!!? Like somebody said already, didn't see too many of these "sane" black feminist denouncing them. We mostly seen "you go girl!, talk to'em!!!". Now this was the worst blow to "SANE" black feminist ever. How come you guys didn't ban together and expose these lunatic THOTS in "sane" feminist clothing? where's the "sane" black feminist N.B.C special?
2. Since a lot of positive gentlemen(such as myself) have a lot of the same views(some are completely stupid though) on female equality as you. Can a male be a feminist too?
3. How would you feel about men starting a "masculinist" movement. It would focus on how men are
- Treated unfairly by women when it comes to paying the bill/tab on a date
- Treated unfairly during a pregnancy and having little say in the matter
- Treated unfairly by the law compared to women
- Paying more for our car insurance than women
- Treated unfairly in a fight with a women(physical, mental, or emotional)
- Treated unfairly when it comes to child custody and child support
- Treated unfairly when it comes to sexual advances in any form towards a woman depending on how she's feeling
- Looked down upon by most women for not having a car or not having their own place
- Expected to keep a cool head while woman act a complete fool
- Expected to treat a woman like gold, chase them, and try to impress them instead of it being the other way around
- Painted as cheaters and dead beat parents. While females are painted as fragile victims and the strong/loyal half
- Having our maturity lowered beneath a woman's level of maturity. When we see everyday that this is far from the truth.
1. You have to talk to NBC and the corporate media about that...and what television specials are u referring to?
2. Why not
3. Sure...Though I feel some of your grievance conflict with my own considering I believe a woman should have the right to terminate an early pregnancy without the consent of the father. But we do share a common foe: patriarchy -
desertrain10 wrote: »Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Don't you see that you're essentially doing the same thing that you were bashing other people for. You said it's wrong for people to cherrypick the extreme feminists and feminist ideals and then act like feminism as a whole is bad because of them. But your whole argument for why feminism is good revolves around you cherry picking a few feminists and feminist ideals that aren't extreme and acting like they are what defines feminism as a whole. If that line of thinking is ok when it comes to supporting feminism, it should be ok when it comes to bashing feminism.
Every reasonable human being should want fair and just treatment for everyone. Now there is nothing wrong with specializing your efforts in a particular area. So if you want to be an activist for women's rights, that's fine. But from what I see, feminism is as much about attacking men as it is about defending women. If you want to push your cause forward by stepping on others, then you're not for fair and just treatment, you're only for your own personal goals. And that's just selfishness.
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JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »SixSickSins wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Smh
We are all guilty of making hast generalizations at times, but the generalizing about feminism has reached an all time high... and so has the hostility
Yes there has been extremist out there who have tried to hijack the term...but sometimes I just don't get the hate
At the end of the day, feminism is not a political party or an organization like the naacp...its just an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women....though I and a another woman may label ourselves feminist, it is also possible and highly probable we share differing view points, ideologies
I myself have been highly inspired by the writings of angela davis ...my favorite feminist
With that said, besides the fact they are female students, why do you consider them to be representative of the feminist movement?
As far as consent goes, yes means yes...no means no....however silence doesn't necessarily mean 'yes' ... you have to take body language into considerationon the i.c. men feel like they're being oppressed by women and militant feminists pose a real threat to their lives. it's absurd.
❤
Thank goodness some people have a brain.
This is just another thread to foment hatred and mistrust towards feminists as a whole under the guise "well, I didn't indicate all feminists". So pathetic. That would be like me making a thread about how all Black men are horrible, absentee fathers--even though that's the furthest thing from the truth. Constantly making threads highlighting the bad of a certain population does nothing to initiate intelligent conversation on issues that truly deserve to be discussed. All you men are doing are giving an outreach platform to the women you literally violently hate--feeding the trolls a most decadent meal, so to speak.
I, and others such as @desertrain10, are up for also speaking on men's issues that remain underrepresented, but it's hard to get anywhere with a collective, limited, and destructive groupthink of "? ain't ? ", "women are juveniles who lack logic", etc. There are posts in here saying women deserve to be physically harmed to beat them back into reality. Who really hates who? Because a lot of y'all men are sounding like woman-haters.
When there's an intelligent, healthy discussion on the real issues at hand, @ me.
You claim you want intelligent conversation but call people who disagree brainless, despite the fact that they are alive and a brain is necessary for life
Your comparison is wrong too
It is not like you saying all black men are horrible, it would be like you saying certain black men believe a certain thing
I don't hate these women, their bad logic is thread worthy though
The Op makes no value judgments about Feminism as a whole, or even these women
Simply being born black doesn't have any inherent affect on the type of person you are ...or what type of belief structure you follow or any personality characteristics.... HOWEVER subscribing to a particular ideology is a conciencious choice open to scrutiny like any other conciencious choice one would make ...it's not a result of biological osmosis ...so at the very least comparing the two things would appear to be a not so well executed false equivalence
Absolutely
But if she didn't straw man she wouldn't be able to criticize -
desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US. -
VulcanRaven wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US.
The wage gap still exists, although it seems to be mostly due to career choices, but many women see this as something that needs to change
This is where you get groups saying that expectations for women need to evolve so girls can feel comfortable pursuing 'male' Careers like engineering
Prostitution is another issue for feminists
As far as policy goes it's pretty equal in the public sector, outside of things like law and politics where rich white males dominant Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court
The private sector is far worse than the public sector -
VulcanRaven wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US.
The wage gap still exists, although it seems to be mostly due to career choices, but many women see this as something that needs to change
This is where you get groups saying that expectations for women need to evolve so girls can feel comfortable pursuing 'male' Careers like engineering
Prostitution is another issue for feminists
As far as policy goes it's pretty equal in the public sector, outside of things like law and politics where rich white males dominant Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court
The private sector is far worse than the public sector
The wage thing is the only thing I could think of.What's there point about prostitution? -
VulcanRaven wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US.
The wage gap still exists, although it seems to be mostly due to career choices, but many women see this as something that needs to change
This is where you get groups saying that expectations for women need to evolve so girls can feel comfortable pursuing 'male' Careers like engineering
Prostitution is another issue for feminists
As far as policy goes it's pretty equal in the public sector, outside of things like law and politics where rich white males dominant Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court
The private sector is far worse than the public sector
The wage thing is the only thing I could think of.What's there point about prostitution?
Some places have laws that are considered unfair for women in the sex industry as far as fines and punishment are concerned
There are groups that oppose the way ? hotlines and pornography are completely legal while sex solicitation is not
In Spain a lot of prostitutes were getting hit by cars so they have to wear those visibility vests
Seeing as it is mostly women in the industry doing the 'labour' it is largely a women's issue -
laws are unfair for female drug dealers
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VulcanRaven wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US.
The wage gap still exists, although it seems to be mostly due to career choices, but many women see this as something that needs to change
This is where you get groups saying that expectations for women need to evolve so girls can feel comfortable pursuing 'male' Careers like engineering
Prostitution is another issue for feminists
As far as policy goes it's pretty equal in the public sector, outside of things like law and politics where rich white males dominant Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court
The private sector is far worse than the public sector
The wage thing is the only thing I could think of.What's there point about prostitution?
Some places have laws that are considered unfair for women in the sex industry as far as files and punishment are concerned
There are groups that oppose the way ? hotlines and pornography are completely legal while sex solicitation is not
In Spain a lot of prostitutes were getting hit by cars so they have to wear those visibility bests
Seeing as it is mostly women in the industry doing the 'labour' it is largely a women's issue
That's funny since johns are the ones targeted by the police and hookers objectify themselves so you would think feminist are against that. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Also because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Don't you see that you're essentially doing the same thing that you were bashing other people for. You said it's wrong for people to cherrypick the extreme feminists and feminist ideals and then act like feminism as a whole is bad because of them. But your whole argument for why feminism is good revolves around you cherry picking a few feminists and feminist ideals that aren't extreme and acting like they are what defines feminism as a whole. If that line of thinking is ok when it comes to supporting feminism, it should be ok when it comes to bashing feminism.
Every reasonable human being should want fair and just treatment for everyone. Now there is nothing wrong with specializing your efforts in a particular area. So if you want to be an activist for women's rights, that's fine. But from what I see, feminism is as much about attacking men as it is about defending women. If you want to push your cause forward by stepping on others, then you're not for fair and just treatment, you're only for your own personal goals. And that's just selfishness.
I've admit a lot of not so great things happened in the name of feminism...for me it still doesn't tarnish the term or legacy of the feminist who fought so that I would have the same opportunities once only afforded to men....that's all I'm saying
With that said, I just have a problem with people who like to portray feminist as being this monolith
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VulcanRaven wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US.
The wage gap still exists, although it seems to be mostly due to career choices, but many women see this as something that needs to change
This is where you get groups saying that expectations for women need to evolve so girls can feel comfortable pursuing 'male' Careers like engineering
Prostitution is another issue for feminists
As far as policy goes it's pretty equal in the public sector, outside of things like law and politics where rich white males dominant Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court
The private sector is far worse than the public sector
The wage thing is the only thing I could think of.What's there point about prostitution?
Some places have laws that are considered unfair for women in the sex industry as far as files and punishment are concerned
There are groups that oppose the way ? hotlines and pornography are completely legal while sex solicitation is not
In Spain a lot of prostitutes were getting hit by cars so they have to wear those visibility bests
Seeing as it is mostly women in the industry doing the 'labour' it is largely a women's issue
That's funny since johns are the ones targeted by the police and hookers objectify themselves so you would think feminist are against that.
There are sex negative feminists against it
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VulcanRaven wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »desertrain10 wrote: »
Maybe I'm not explaining myself properly ...
Again feminism is an umbrella term for a range of views about injustices against women. Its not a monolith. Its not a political party. Its not some sort of organization. We are unique individuals. What unites us is we want to empower women
Or, in other words, one cannot characterize a feminist’s philosophy or values based only on her feminist label. And vice versa. One cannot assume to know a person's philosophy or values based solely from her feminist label
Black feminist and white feminist often are at odds on many issues
When I refer to an extremist, I'm referring to an individual with extreme views that detract from the empowerment of women ...for example the "feminist" who criticized women for being homemakers should be denounced
Better yet I'm denouncing the popular narrative that feminist are a monolith of man hating crazies
All I'm getting from your posts is that feminism is ? . Based on your statement, the only thing that ties you together is the desire for the empowerment of women. Well not every woman is a feminist, but all women want women to be treated fairly and justly. I'm betting few to no men would be considered feminists, but I'd say most men also want women to be treated fairly and justly, especially those of us who have wives, daughters, sisters, etc... that we care about. So if the one and only thing that connects feminists is something you don't even need to be a feminist to support, what's the point of being a feminist? I mean why would you even want to apply a label to yourself when that label also applies to a bunch of people with beliefs that conflict with your own?
Lol
I label myself a feminist for some of the same reasons why I self identify as an environmentalist or a liberal
Because for women there is still so much to fight for
Yes I am aware of some of the not so great things people do in the name of feminism, and the reasons someone might want to distance themselves from it....but I tend to think of these as outliers, unrepresentative of most feminists
Maybe I am doing a No True Scotsman to define “feminism” as I like.... but when I think of feminism I think of the great things self identified feminist have accomplished for my sake over the last 50 plus years. I think of people like angela davis who self identifies as a feminist and was one of the first public figures to speak in depth on the plight of modern day blk woman in America. I think of the women today like writer Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
What are women fighting for exactly? All the laws benefit them even they are wrong, they also benefit from double standards/gender roles (ask Ray Rice) and are protected by society.Women get lesser prison sentences than men because of their gender and have more job opportunities.It seems like paranoia instead of reality.Maybe I am missing something?The middle east has these problems that women need to fight for,not the US.
The wage gap still exists, although it seems to be mostly due to career choices, but many women see this as something that needs to change
This is where you get groups saying that expectations for women need to evolve so girls can feel comfortable pursuing 'male' Careers like engineering
Prostitution is another issue for feminists
As far as policy goes it's pretty equal in the public sector, outside of things like law and politics where rich white males dominant Congress, the Senate and the Supreme court
The private sector is far worse than the public sector
The wage thing is the only thing I could think of.What's there point about prostitution?
Some places have laws that are considered unfair for women in the sex industry as far as files and punishment are concerned
There are groups that oppose the way ? hotlines and pornography are completely legal while sex solicitation is not
In Spain a lot of prostitutes were getting hit by cars so they have to wear those visibility bests
Seeing as it is mostly women in the industry doing the 'labour' it is largely a women's issue
That's funny since johns are the ones targeted by the police and hookers objectify themselves so you would think feminist are against that.
It's funny though cause in Canada Native women have been dying in absurd numbers
many of them involved in the sex industry and often they go missing without a word
little is done by police and their families get no answers
A lot if not most of these white feminists doing things like the ? walk in Toronto that fight for their rights give no ? about it
Let one one broad go missing and it's on the news for weeks
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desertrain10 wrote: »I've admit a lot of not so great things happened in the name of feminism...for me it still doesn't tarnish the term or legacy of the feminist who fought so that I would have the same opportunities once only afforded to men....that's all I'm saying
With that said, I just have a problem with people who like to portray feminist as being this monolith
It's not that people are portraying feminism as being a monolith. The issue is that feminism has those bad aspects to them, and some people believe they are more prevalent than the supposed good aspects. Therefor the believe it is bad.
I personally think it is pointless. As I said before, you don't need to be a feminist to stand for women's rights and regardless of how much good has been done in the name of feminism, it doesn't make sense to associate yourself with something that is often represented by people whose views contradict your own. -
muthafuckas are gonna stick to ? and using fleshlights if even getting a 'yes' can lead to ? charges.
