Cam Newton for MVP? The madness has to stop...
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bow to royalty wrote: »fightforolddc wrote: »Cam > Brady in the MVP race.
Right now.
It's simple. The award goes to the best QB on the best team these days, unless the QB is just a game manager. Cam is doing his thing.
I hear you, and that does look like the patten. But all those QB's had great seasons. We're talking about a QB whose weakness this year is passing. We're talking MVP not Heisman
Passing is not his weakness, it's the teams' if it's even a weakness and sit on that same point w/o mentioning his receiver core...you just seem like a hater
And despite this "weakness", they still put up points, still undefeated
Receivers are a cop out to me kinda.
His career completion percentage is 59
last year it was 58
this year its 57.
Why are we acting like we're seeing some crazy drop in play? And have you read? I've mentioned his receivers.bow to royalty wrote: »They're a rushing team and he drives the rushing attack behind a team averaging the 3rd most points in league
Cam's 39 rushing yards a game is driving the rushing attack? He does find the end zone though. No doubt about that.
Tom Brady is the QB of a passing team, and drives the passing attack for the team averaging the 2nd most points in the league. He also finds the end zone, and more than Cam so far. While coughing up the ball less. And also throwing to an unimpressive group of WR's (Like Cam is).
But saying passing is his weakness after 5 seasons of play with a 59% completion percentage is hating? No, blaming all that on Kelvin Benjamin being out is nut hugging. Show me other modern QB's with a completion percentage (career) that low, that's a good Passer. If you can't it's nut hugging to me, because you know it's terrible, but want to give a pass just because it's Cam. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »fightforolddc wrote: »Cam > Brady in the MVP race.
Right now.
It's simple. The award goes to the best QB on the best team these days, unless the QB is just a game manager. Cam is doing his thing.
I hear you, and that does look like the patten. But all those QB's had great seasons. We're talking about a QB whose weakness this year is passing. We're talking MVP not Heisman
Passing is not his weakness, it's the teams' if it's even a weakness and sit on that same point w/o mentioning his receiver core...you just seem like a hater
And despite this "weakness", they still put up points, still undefeated
Receivers are a cop out to me kinda.
His career completion percentage is 59
last year it was 58
this year its 57.
Why are we acting like we're seeing some crazy drop in play? And have you read? I've mentioned his receivers.bow to royalty wrote: »They're a rushing team and he drives the rushing attack behind a team averaging the 3rd most points in league
Cam's 39 rushing yards a game is driving the rushing attack? He does find the end zone though. No doubt about that.
Tom Brady is the QB of a passing team, and drives the passing attack for the team averaging the 2nd most points in the league. He also finds the end zone, and more than Cam so far. While coughing up the ball less. And also throwing to an unimpressive group of WR's (Like Cam is).
Lol you don't know how you feel. How is it a cop out for Cam, but you said the same thing about every receiver on the Patriots except Gronk? If Steve McNair can win an mvp with his numbers from '03, then Cam's numbers more than validate his candidacy. Montana's numbers in '90 aren't great. John Elway won a mvp completing 54% of his passes, 19 tds and 12 pics. You really need to do a little more research before you jump to conclusions bruh. -
U just want him to have 4000 passing and 30 yes like the white boy qbs who have those systems set up for them Smh
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bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »fightforolddc wrote: »Cam > Brady in the MVP race.
Right now.
It's simple. The award goes to the best QB on the best team these days, unless the QB is just a game manager. Cam is doing his thing.
I hear you, and that does look like the patten. But all those QB's had great seasons. We're talking about a QB whose weakness this year is passing. We're talking MVP not Heisman
Passing is not his weakness, it's the teams' if it's even a weakness and sit on that same point w/o mentioning his receiver core...you just seem like a hater
And despite this "weakness", they still put up points, still undefeated
Receivers are a cop out to me kinda.
His career completion percentage is 59
last year it was 58
this year its 57.
Why are we acting like we're seeing some crazy drop in play? And have you read? I've mentioned his receivers.bow to royalty wrote: »They're a rushing team and he drives the rushing attack behind a team averaging the 3rd most points in league
Cam's 39 rushing yards a game is driving the rushing attack? He does find the end zone though. No doubt about that.
Tom Brady is the QB of a passing team, and drives the passing attack for the team averaging the 2nd most points in the league. He also finds the end zone, and more than Cam so far. While coughing up the ball less. And also throwing to an unimpressive group of WR's (Like Cam is).
Lol you don't know how you feel. How is it a cop out for Cam, but you said the same thing about every receiver on the Patriots except Gronk? If Steve McNair can win an mvp with his numbers from '03, then Cam's numbers more than validate his candidacy. Montana's numbers in '90 aren't great. John Elway won a mvp completing 54% of his passes, 19 tds and 12 pics. You really need to do a little more research before you jump to conclusions bruh.
My point about the receivers was his completion percentage isn't far from his career average, or his completion percentage last year. It's like if Ginn goes to the Rams next year and doesn't put up 1,100 yards and 11 TD's, but tries to blame it on not having a good enough QB. You'd look at him like he's crazy, because he's never been that level of receiver. Cam's never had a good completion percentage, and this year isn't far from his norm, but we act like it's because Kelvin Benjamin got hurt.
And those comparison's are REACHING. Joe Montana won MVP one year with 70% of his passes completed, 26 TD's and 8 INT one year (other year isn't nearly as impressive as this one). John Elway won MVP in 1987. 28 years ago bruh, and it was a different league. 3 QB's completed over 60% of their passes, and 1 QB had a TD:INT ratio over 2 the year Elway won. This year over 25 QB's completed over 60% of their passes, and 14 QB's have a TD:INT ratio over 2. Trying to compare 2015 QB numbers with late 80's/early 90's QB numbers is the weakest thing you've said in here so far. You had to know this was ? when you typed it man. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »fightforolddc wrote: »Cam > Brady in the MVP race.
Right now.
It's simple. The award goes to the best QB on the best team these days, unless the QB is just a game manager. Cam is doing his thing.
I hear you, and that does look like the patten. But all those QB's had great seasons. We're talking about a QB whose weakness this year is passing. We're talking MVP not Heisman
Passing is not his weakness, it's the teams' if it's even a weakness and sit on that same point w/o mentioning his receiver core...you just seem like a hater
And despite this "weakness", they still put up points, still undefeated
Receivers are a cop out to me kinda.
His career completion percentage is 59
last year it was 58
this year its 57.
Why are we acting like we're seeing some crazy drop in play? And have you read? I've mentioned his receivers.bow to royalty wrote: »They're a rushing team and he drives the rushing attack behind a team averaging the 3rd most points in league
Cam's 39 rushing yards a game is driving the rushing attack? He does find the end zone though. No doubt about that.
Tom Brady is the QB of a passing team, and drives the passing attack for the team averaging the 2nd most points in the league. He also finds the end zone, and more than Cam so far. While coughing up the ball less. And also throwing to an unimpressive group of WR's (Like Cam is).
Lol you don't know how you feel. How is it a cop out for Cam, but you said the same thing about every receiver on the Patriots except Gronk? If Steve McNair can win an mvp with his numbers from '03, then Cam's numbers more than validate his candidacy. Montana's numbers in '90 aren't great. John Elway won a mvp completing 54% of his passes, 19 tds and 12 pics. You really need to do a little more research before you jump to conclusions bruh.
My point about the receivers was his completion percentage isn't far from his career average, or his completion percentage last year. It's like if Ginn goes to the Rams next year and doesn't put up 1,100 yards and 11 TD's, but tries to blame it on not having a good enough QB. You'd look at him like he's crazy, because he's never been that level of receiver. Cam's never had a good completion percentage, and this year isn't far from his norm, but we act like it's because Kelvin Benjamin got hurt.
And those comparison's are REACHING. Joe Montana won MVP one year with 70% of his passes completed, 26 TD's and 8 INT one year (other year isn't nearly as impressive as this one). John Elway won MVP in 1987. 28 years ago bruh, and it was a different league. 3 QB's completed over 60% of their passes, and 1 QB had a TD:INT ratio over 2 the year Elway won. This year over 25 QB's completed over 60% of their passes, and 14 QB's have a TD:INT ratio over 2. Trying to compare 2015 QB numbers with late 80's/early 90's QB numbers is the weakest thing you've said in here so far. You had to know this was ? when you typed it man.
Ok, well Brett Favre has back to back (96-97) mvps completing 59% of his passes. I've already mentioned McNair, how many more examples do you need to show your notion that completion percentage and yards equates to an mvp award is wrong? What's ? is how you ignore Cam's value as a rusher, and only pick at his completion percentage and yards. Last year Cam played hurt for the majority of the year with two rookie wideouts getting a ton of playing time, and our pro bowl left tackle retiring prior to the season, so yea Cam didn't have a great year. The previous year he completed 61% of his passes for 24 pass tds, 6 rush tds and only 13 ints. He completed 60% of his passes his rookie year. You don't watch cam or the Panthers, and you never have. You only look at the numbers, but they don't tell the whole story. If the mvp was solely about the numbers, Drew Brees would have won it the last 5-6 years. -
bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »fightforolddc wrote: »Cam > Brady in the MVP race.
Right now.
It's simple. The award goes to the best QB on the best team these days, unless the QB is just a game manager. Cam is doing his thing.
I hear you, and that does look like the patten. But all those QB's had great seasons. We're talking about a QB whose weakness this year is passing. We're talking MVP not Heisman
Passing is not his weakness, it's the teams' if it's even a weakness and sit on that same point w/o mentioning his receiver core...you just seem like a hater
And despite this "weakness", they still put up points, still undefeated
Receivers are a cop out to me kinda.
His career completion percentage is 59
last year it was 58
this year its 57.
Why are we acting like we're seeing some crazy drop in play? And have you read? I've mentioned his receivers.bow to royalty wrote: »They're a rushing team and he drives the rushing attack behind a team averaging the 3rd most points in league
Cam's 39 rushing yards a game is driving the rushing attack? He does find the end zone though. No doubt about that.
Tom Brady is the QB of a passing team, and drives the passing attack for the team averaging the 2nd most points in the league. He also finds the end zone, and more than Cam so far. While coughing up the ball less. And also throwing to an unimpressive group of WR's (Like Cam is).
Lol you don't know how you feel. How is it a cop out for Cam, but you said the same thing about every receiver on the Patriots except Gronk? If Steve McNair can win an mvp with his numbers from '03, then Cam's numbers more than validate his candidacy. Montana's numbers in '90 aren't great. John Elway won a mvp completing 54% of his passes, 19 tds and 12 pics. You really need to do a little more research before you jump to conclusions bruh.
My point about the receivers was his completion percentage isn't far from his career average, or his completion percentage last year. It's like if Ginn goes to the Rams next year and doesn't put up 1,100 yards and 11 TD's, but tries to blame it on not having a good enough QB. You'd look at him like he's crazy, because he's never been that level of receiver. Cam's never had a good completion percentage, and this year isn't far from his norm, but we act like it's because Kelvin Benjamin got hurt.
And those comparison's are REACHING. Joe Montana won MVP one year with 70% of his passes completed, 26 TD's and 8 INT one year (other year isn't nearly as impressive as this one). John Elway won MVP in 1987. 28 years ago bruh, and it was a different league. 3 QB's completed over 60% of their passes, and 1 QB had a TD:INT ratio over 2 the year Elway won. This year over 25 QB's completed over 60% of their passes, and 14 QB's have a TD:INT ratio over 2. Trying to compare 2015 QB numbers with late 80's/early 90's QB numbers is the weakest thing you've said in here so far. You had to know this was ? when you typed it man.
Ok, well Brett Favre has back to back (96-97) mvps completing 59% of his passes. I've already mentioned McNair, how many more examples do you need to show your notion that completion percentage and yards equates to an mvp award is wrong? What's ? is how you ignore Cam's value as a rusher, and only pick at his completion percentage and yards. Last year Cam played hurt for the majority of the year with two rookie wideouts getting a ton of playing time, and our pro bowl left tackle retiring prior to the season, so yea Cam didn't have a great year. The previous year he completed 61% of his passes for 24 pass tds, 6 rush tds and only 13 ints. He completed 60% of his passes his rookie year. You don't watch cam or the Panthers, and you never have. You only look at the numbers, but they don't tell the whole story. If the mvp was solely about the numbers, Drew Brees would have won it the last 5-6 years.
Bruh, you seem to not know football as well as you think. You keep going back to a different era, and like anyone who knows football can tell you...you can't compare the 2. Compare them to the competition.
Favre in 96 was 7th in completion percentage, 4th in yards, 1st in TD:INT ratio, 1st in TD's, and 2nd in QBR
Favre in 97 was 6th in completion percentage, 2nd in yards, 8th in TD:INT ratio, 1st in TD's, 3rd in QBR
Mcnair in 03 was 9th in completion percentage, 15th in yards, 1st in TD:INT ratio, tied for 4th in TD's, 1st in QBR
Cam in 2015 is 29th in completion percentage, 13th in yards (includes his rushing), tied for 9th in TD:INT ratio, 3rd in TD's, 19th in QBR
All the lowest ranks are bolded for you. Cam's not even top 10 in 3 of the 5 categories there (and I included his passing and rushing stats). He has time to turn it around (not completion percentage), but right now he's not ? with them. -
lol Moving the goalpost..this ? done
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These are the average passing stats going back as far as y'all did with QB's. Do you see why we don't compare 2015 QB numbers with guys from the 80's and 90's now?
<PRE>
Rk Year Cmp% Yds TD Int Y/A
1 2015 63.0 2738.9 18.4 9.8 7.3
2 2014 62.6 3789.0 25.2 14.1 7.2
3 2013 61.2 3769.6 25.1 15.7 7.1
4 2012 60.9 3700.6 23.7 14.6 7.1
5 2011 60.1 3675.0 23.3 15.8 7.2
6 2010 60.8 3545.3 23.5 16.0 7.0
7 2009 60.9 3495.3 22.2 16.4 7.0
8 2008 61.0 3380.5 20.2 14.5 6.9
9 2007 61.2 3428.8 22.5 16.7 6.9
10 2006 59.8 3276.9 20.3 16.3 6.9
11 2005 59.5 3255.3 20.1 15.8 6.8
12 2004 59.8 3368.7 22.9 16.4 7.1
13 2003 58.8 3207.1 20.4 16.8 6.6
14 2002 59.6 3395.7 21.7 16.5 6.7
15 2001 59.0 3292.9 20.5 17.6 6.8
16 2000 58.2 3309.9 20.5 17.1 6.7
17 1999 57.1 3396.4 21.5 18.1 6.8
18 1998 56.6 3279.5 21.9 17.0 6.8
19 1997 56.2 3229.2 20.6 16.0 6.7
20 1996 57.6 3318.9 20.9 18.1 6.7
21 1995 58.2 3532.5 22.1 17.1 6.8
22 1994 58.0 3417.6 20.8 16.9 6.8
23 1993 57.9 3209.8 18.5 16.8 6.7
24 1992 57.5 3002.3 18.4 18.5 6.9
25 1991 57.4 3185.8 18.3 17.4 6.9
26 1990 56.0 3116.0 20.5 17.1 7.0
27 1989 55.8 3374.1 20.8 20.0 7.1
28 1988 54.3 3210.5 19.9 19.8 6.9
29 1987 54.8 3058.8 21.8 19.3 7.0
</PRE>
5 of the 10 highest completion percentages by a QB in a single season were within the last 5 years
Marino was the only person in NFL history to throw 5,000 yards in a season in 1984. Then it didn't happen for over 20 years, and now it's happened 9 times since 08
Stop embarrassing yourselves by comparing Cam's 2015 numbers to guys from 96, 97, 87, etc. It's apples and oranges. -
lol Moving the goalpost..this ? done
maaan, ya'll in here REACHIN, haha. You're not on my side, and even you gotta admit validating Cam's completion percentage by comparing it to QB's from 20 years ago is a stretch like a mother ? . The league's waaay more QB friendly now.
Cam compared to Elway in 87? C'MON! -
What's the difference between Carolina and Seattle this year ?
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What's the difference between Carolina and Seattle this year ?
Not sure which one you're hoping to hear, so I'll name a few. Schedule is one - NFC South plays the AFC South and NFC East this year...the Seahawks play AFC North and NFC North.
Seattle's D is 8th in ppg, Carolina's 3rd.
Seattle's D is 4th in ypg. Carolina's 2nd.
Seattle's D forced 15 turnovers (18th). Carolina's forced 28 (1st)
Seahawks have the better run game, and pretty good depth at RB. Panthers run game is based on quantity.
Seahawks have the worst pass protecting OL in the league. Carolina's is 16th
Seahawks D has the 12th most sacks in the league, Panthers have 3rd most.
Seahawks outside of QB turned the ball over twice. Panthers outside of QB turned the ball over once.
Both teams have a top tier TE
Both teams have an unimpressive group of WR's
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Too many words
One answer, Cam Newton
and Seattle has a cheat code at TE -
bow to royalty wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »How do you know his team can win without him? Cam hasn't been hurt for an extended period of time. You could have a better argument if you didn't come off as a hater.
He has the 3rd leading rusher, and #2 defense (that has a LB that could be DPOY, and a corner who's playing like one of the best in the league this year). He's not on a team of scrubs. Don't say stupid things.
Let's address why you have a 5 year old, pre-season, incompletion underneath all your posts?
You're obviously a fan of a divisional opponent your opinion is bias and you're coming off as a hater..he should be considered, but seeing what Brady is doing this year w all the injuries around him is hard not to give it up to him.
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natural born sinners wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »How do you know his team can win without him? Cam hasn't been hurt for an extended period of time. You could have a better argument if you didn't come off as a hater.
He has the 3rd leading rusher, and #2 defense (that has a LB that could be DPOY, and a corner who's playing like one of the best in the league this year). He's not on a team of scrubs. Don't say stupid things.
Let's address why you have a 5 year old, pre-season, incompletion underneath all your posts?
You're obviously a fan of a divisional opponent your opinion is bias and you're coming off as a hater..he should be considered, but seeing what Brady is doing this year w all the injuries around him is hard not to give it up to him.
I didn't say don't consider him. I said he shouldn't win. The problem is everyone thinks the only 2 options are MVP or terrible ? . -
bow to royalty wrote: »natural born sinners wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »How do you know his team can win without him? Cam hasn't been hurt for an extended period of time. You could have a better argument if you didn't come off as a hater.
He has the 3rd leading rusher, and #2 defense (that has a LB that could be DPOY, and a corner who's playing like one of the best in the league this year). He's not on a team of scrubs. Don't say stupid things.
Let's address why you have a 5 year old, pre-season, incompletion underneath all your posts?
You're obviously a fan of a divisional opponent your opinion is bias and you're coming off as a hater..he should be considered, but seeing what Brady is doing this year w all the injuries around him is hard not to give it up to him.
I didn't say don't consider him. I said he shouldn't win. The problem is everyone thinks the only 2 options are MVP or terrible ? .
If Winston was undefeated with same numbers as Cam would you be saying he doesn't deserve MVP -
ericb4prez wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »natural born sinners wrote: »bow to royalty wrote: »En-Fuego22 wrote: »How do you know his team can win without him? Cam hasn't been hurt for an extended period of time. You could have a better argument if you didn't come off as a hater.
He has the 3rd leading rusher, and #2 defense (that has a LB that could be DPOY, and a corner who's playing like one of the best in the league this year). He's not on a team of scrubs. Don't say stupid things.
Let's address why you have a 5 year old, pre-season, incompletion underneath all your posts?
You're obviously a fan of a divisional opponent your opinion is bias and you're coming off as a hater..he should be considered, but seeing what Brady is doing this year w all the injuries around him is hard not to give it up to him.
I didn't say don't consider him. I said he shouldn't win. The problem is everyone thinks the only 2 options are MVP or terrible ? .
If Winston was undefeated with same numbers as Cam would you be saying he doesn't deserve MVP
Ya. Doug has great numbers and I don't think he deserves anything. I could hype him up too though. Rookie QB, 2 rookies on OL. Receiving targets that have been hurt pretty much all season. Still putting up 5.1/carry and over 100 yards from scrimmage per game.
Legit question to ask though -
So MVP means the best stats?
My ? Brees deserve at least one then. -
Shizlansky wrote: »So MVP means the best stats?
My ? Brees deserve at least one then.
It can. Every year you hear the individual numbers vs.value to the team argument for MVP. Brees missing the playoffs has hurt him. Dude is without a doubt a monster though.
He's an example of true greatness. Lost an elite TE, and a young WR. Was left with a WR/TE group that isn't blowing anyone away, AND is having a year that has people wondering how long he'll be in NO. But he's still competing 68% of his passes, twice as many TD as INT's. If you could have Cam playing how he's playing for the next 10 years or CAR defense playing how it's playing for the next 10 years, which would you choose? -
bow to royalty wrote: »Shizlansky wrote: »So MVP means the best stats?
My ? Brees deserve at least one then.
It can. Every year you hear the individual numbers vs.value to the team argument for MVP. Brees missing the playoffs has hurt him. Dude is without a doubt a monster though.
He's an example of true greatness. Lost an elite TE, and a young WR. Was left with a WR/TE group that isn't blowing anyone away, AND is having a year that has people wondering how long he'll be in NO. But he's still competing 68% of his passes, twice as many TD as INT's. If you could have Cam playing how he's playing for the next 10 years or CAR defense playing how it's playing for the next 10 years, which would you choose?
Somehow, me comparing the stats of past mvp winners is dumb to you, but somehow asking would you rather have Cam or the defense for the next ten years makes sense to you when evaluating who is mvp this year.
Drew Brees is an example of true greatness with his numbers, and yet they're eerily similar to Cam's. Cam has twice as many passing touchdowns as interceptions, but wait there's more, he also has 7 rushing touchdowns, which is the most for a qb this year and most on the team. Here's a better question, what matters more completion percentage or touchdowns? Would you rather have your qb score 10 touchdowns on the ground or have a 65% completion percentage?
Now let's talk about red zone statistics, where Cam's numbers have been better than Brady, and that's not even counting the rushing stats. ZERO turnovers for Cam in the red zone, Brady has 1 int. Hit up profootballreference if you don't believe me.
You've said Brady's weapons are on par with Cam's, yet Brady's weapons have 1788 yac, compared to 876 for Cam. What does that say? A couple of things actually, one being that Cam is primarily a downfield passer. Passes that typically have a lower completion percentage. I'm assuming you've watched enough patriots games to know that they're bread and butter is the short passing game, routes where the ball is coming out quick, and the chance for completion is much higher. The YAC stats also debunk your notion from earlier in the thread that Brady doesn't have weapons, when in fact most of NE's production in the passing game is a result of those guys making plays after the catch. Once again, you are wrong.
You have found a way to make Cam sound trash in this thread. You have devalued everything he has done up until this point in his career, and you have excluded the context of almost every scenario you've mentioned, but your not hating, you're just a champion of the "ideal" mvp, and only a few stats matter when selecting the mvp in your eyes. Fact of the matter is, you cannot plug any quarterback into Carolina and think the team has the same success. I would say Russell Wilson and Rodgers are about the only two. -
bow to royalty wrote: »Brady got talent around him gronk amendola edleman Lewis that got hurt Blount add in the great system. Can has Olsen Stewart rookies. Ginn lol and his number 1 got his acl tore in the preseason. Cam is having a mvp season period
What?! Y'all are lying you're assess off in here gassing up these players. And Dion Lewis was a journeyman RB who played less than half the season before hitting IR. But ya count him as a big offensive talent. Blount broke 100 yards once this year too, so ya count him too.
Don't gas these dudes up just to discredit Brady.
Does all the credit go to Brady for elevating their talent, or does Belichick, the Pat's culture and the Pat's system play a role? -
Is cam a mvp candidate yet?
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prime_time_? wrote: »Is cam a mvp candidate yet?
He damn sure balled out today. With what he did this week, and Brady's bad pick this week, I'll definitely say it's closer than it was last week. Props to him. -
bow to royalty wrote: »prime_time_? wrote: »Is cam a mvp candidate yet?
He damn sure balled out today. With what he did this week, and Brady's bad pick this week, I'll definitely say it's closer than it was last week. Props to him.
Nah ? ? you lol -
Cam definitely is MVP
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bow to royalty wrote: »prime_time_? wrote: »Is cam a mvp candidate yet?
He damn sure balled out today. With what he did this week, and Brady's bad pick this week, I'll definitely say it's closer than it was last week. Props to him.
So where do AP fall into this race now?
