Wrestlemania 32
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Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »they wanted us to believe the first ever womens champion was crowned yesterday
the first ever undisputed champion was crowned...twice
remember cena vs rock - once twice in a lifetime?
wwe lies to our face. you dont think they lie about attendance?
What can proven and what can't be? Seems there is evidence of those others isn't it?
When has Melzter provided any evidence?
he interviewed a former wwe promoter (name given in the following video) and he acknowledged WM3's attendance was inflated
so either meltzer lied about an interview that didnt happen with somebody who didnt exist and pulled a number out of his ass to discredit wwe.....or the wwe lied about said wrestlemania's attendance
im going with the latter
No documents? That's the important thing here. I don't know whether that person is real or not, WM 3 was almost 30 years ago.
But if there was a document...proof of this conversation with said promoter of said event in question.
do you have proof the number is legit?
or are you solely going by what wwe says?
No
oh
looks like we're both in the same boat then
you cant prove its legit
i cant prove its false
but given the ? wwe blatantly lies about, believing they lie about attendance isnt a reach -
Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious? -
Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »they wanted us to believe the first ever womens champion was crowned yesterday
the first ever undisputed champion was crowned...twice
remember cena vs rock - once twice in a lifetime?
wwe lies to our face. you dont think they lie about attendance?
What can proven and what can't be? Seems there is evidence of those others isn't it?
When has Melzter provided any evidence?
he interviewed a former wwe promoter (name given in the following video) and he acknowledged WM3's attendance was inflated
so either meltzer lied about an interview that didnt happen with somebody who didnt exist and pulled a number out of his ass to discredit wwe.....or the wwe lied about said wrestlemania's attendance
im going with the latter
No documents? That's the important thing here. I don't know whether that person is real or not, WM 3 was almost 30 years ago.
But if there was a document...proof of this conversation with said promoter of said event in question.
do you have proof the number is legit?
or are you solely going by what wwe says?
No
oh
looks like we're both in the same boat then
you cant prove its legit
i cant prove its false
but given the ? wwe blatantly lies about, believing they lie about attendance isnt a reach
So you believe what you WANT to believe. Thats fine for you but for me, I need corroboration. You can doubt WWE and MELTZER but for some reason its one or the other...not true.
They could both be lying. -
Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious?
it is, no doubt
but you expect fox/espn to investigate wrestlemania's record? even before they had a partnership with espn, i highly doubt they gave a ? about the records legitimacy. mostly because they dont see wwe as a sport
and now that they do have a partnership? forget it. this cross promotion between wwe and espn has been doing great things for both brands and they're not about to jeopardize it -
All this ? about
"Roman isn't ready"
"Roman sucks on the mic"
"Roman isn't charismatic"
you mean to tell me out the gate all the top stars were ready and didn't have rough starts?
were told they weren't "it" by fans?
is Ziggler or Bryan good the mic?
were Stunning Steve Austin, Rocky Mavia or Hunter Hurst Helmsley future champion guys?
Hogan was a great wrestler and wasn't bland on the mic as a face?
Andre the Giant was a great wrestler and great on the mic?
FOH...
Reigns wasn't ready when he won the rumble but at this point, it's now or never. Can't let the fans keep running the show. The past 3 years were changed due to fans. Punk, fans. Bryan, fans. Batista, fans. Reigns, fans. Let's not act like they didn't bend to the boo's and cheers they got during all these times.
Reigns is as ready as he can be, he will evolve and progress over time. -
Already Home_17 wrote: »Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious?
it is, no doubt
but you expect fox/espn to investigate wrestlemania's record? even before they had a partnership with espn, i highly doubt they gave a ? about the records legitimacy. mostly because they dont see wwe as a sport
and now that they do have a partnership? forget it. this cross promotion between wwe and espn has been doing great things for both brands and they're not about to jeopardize it
Wrestlemania was covered on the local news going back to the 80s. Trying to cover it up with this "ESPN and WWE are partners," doesn't explain why there has never been any corroboration of a Meltzer report. This partnership is new.
During WM 23 WWE claimed to out draw the SUPERBOWL in the same building. You mean ESPN isn't interested in that?
You can always try to write it off like legit news sources don't care but no other writer corroborates Meltzer's report either. Some of these guys have been around for 10 years or better...none of them said "Well I talked to so and so and got this figure..." its always "WWE says _____ but Meltzer says _____"
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Already Home_17 wrote: »Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious?
it is, no doubt
but you expect fox/espn to investigate wrestlemania's record? even before they had a partnership with espn, i highly doubt they gave a ? about the records legitimacy. mostly because they dont see wwe as a sport
and now that they do have a partnership? forget it. this cross promotion between wwe and espn has been doing great things for both brands and they're not about to jeopardize it
Wrestlemania was covered on the local news going back to the 80s. Trying to cover it up with this "ESPN and WWE are partners," doesn't explain why there has never been any corroboration of a Meltzer report. This partnership is new.
During WM 23 WWE claimed to out draw the SUPERBOWL in the same building. You mean ESPN isn't interested in that?
You can always try to write it off like legit news sources don't care but no other writer corroborates Meltzer's report either. Some of these guys have been around for 10 years or better...none of them said "Well I talked to so and so and got this figure..." its always "WWE says _____ but Meltzer says _____"
they care about the super bowl game
not the attendance
also, WM is a big deal due to the attention and revenue it brings to the city. of course it gets coverage on local news -
All this ? about
"Roman isn't ready"
"Roman sucks on the mic"
"Roman isn't charismatic"
you mean to tell me out the gate all the top stars were ready and didn't have rough starts?
were told they weren't "it" by fans?
is Ziggler or Bryan good the mic?
were Stunning Steve Austin, Rocky Mavia or Hunter Hurst Helmsley future champion guys?
Hogan was a great wrestler and wasn't bland on the mic as a face?
Andre the Giant was a great wrestler and great on the mic?
FOH...
Reigns wasn't ready when he won the rumble but at this point, it's now or never. Can't let the fans keep running the show. The past 3 years were changed due to fans. Punk, fans. Bryan, fans. Batista, fans. Reigns, fans. Let's not act like they didn't bend to the boo's and cheers they got during all these times.
Reigns is as ready as he can be, he will evolve and progress over time.
one word to trump all this^^^. "ORGANIC"....ish has to naturally happen. when Rock became champ for the first time , if memory service me correctly he was the rock...not "rocky mavia"....he flipped it on the fans when that ish wasnt working, when stone cold became champ he was "stone cold" not "the ring master".
Of course gimmicks taken time and go thru changes..but at the end of the day,ish has to happened naturally. Hogan was never bland on the mic...those were how all the 80s wrestlers talked...all of them, from mid -card on up. immediately when the mic was on them, they were hyped as *uck.
the problem with Reigns is his booking...they weren't smart enough to hide what he isn't good at and highlight what he is good at ..ala Jim Cornette had said that for years with these wrestlers...Vince just look and seen his"protype" guy and is running wiht it...thinking "we are gonna get him on the mic and he is gonna win over the fans, and make me money...he is the next rock, our next steven austin....blah blah"
There's a difference between being forced and being Organic. Dislike what the fans are doing all you want..but because of it..u now gotta pump-in fake cheering..yea that's good for your company right? -
Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious?
it is, no doubt
but you expect fox/espn to investigate wrestlemania's record? even before they had a partnership with espn, i highly doubt they gave a ? about the records legitimacy. mostly because they dont see wwe as a sport
and now that they do have a partnership? forget it. this cross promotion between wwe and espn has been doing great things for both brands and they're not about to jeopardize it
Wrestlemania was covered on the local news going back to the 80s. Trying to cover it up with this "ESPN and WWE are partners," doesn't explain why there has never been any corroboration of a Meltzer report. This partnership is new.
During WM 23 WWE claimed to out draw the SUPERBOWL in the same building. You mean ESPN isn't interested in that?
You can always try to write it off like legit news sources don't care but no other writer corroborates Meltzer's report either. Some of these guys have been around for 10 years or better...none of them said "Well I talked to so and so and got this figure..." its always "WWE says _____ but Meltzer says _____"
they care about the super bowl game
not the attendance
also, WM is a big deal due to the attention and revenue it brings to the city. of course it gets coverage on local news
They care about all business revolving around sports. Not just the game but the building, the cost of the building, the ratings the game gets, the revenue from commercials etc ESPN at some point talks about all of that. -
Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious?
it is, no doubt
but you expect fox/espn to investigate wrestlemania's record? even before they had a partnership with espn, i highly doubt they gave a ? about the records legitimacy. mostly because they dont see wwe as a sport
and now that they do have a partnership? forget it. this cross promotion between wwe and espn has been doing great things for both brands and they're not about to jeopardize it
Wrestlemania was covered on the local news going back to the 80s. Trying to cover it up with this "ESPN and WWE are partners," doesn't explain why there has never been any corroboration of a Meltzer report. This partnership is new.
During WM 23 WWE claimed to out draw the SUPERBOWL in the same building. You mean ESPN isn't interested in that?
You can always try to write it off like legit news sources don't care but no other writer corroborates Meltzer's report either. Some of these guys have been around for 10 years or better...none of them said "Well I talked to so and so and got this figure..." its always "WWE says _____ but Meltzer says _____"
they care about the super bowl game
not the attendance
also, WM is a big deal due to the attention and revenue it brings to the city. of course it gets coverage on local news
They care about all business revolving around sports. Not just the game but the building, the cost of the building, the ratings the game gets, the revenue from commercials etc ESPN at some point talks about all of that.
i dont remember the last time a super bowl attendance was announced on ESPN
i dont remember the last time the super bowl attendance was announced during a game
you have to be looking for the attendance to know the attendance
unlike wwe where they throw it in your face
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Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Already Home_17 wrote: »Lets discuss this more intellectually. You mean to tell me every year WWE announces attendance, meltzer refutes.
So none of the legitimate news sources (FOX Sports, ESPN etc) get this information, none of the other 10,000 wrestling "writers" (Justin LaBar, Wade Keller etc) none of them EVER refute the figure nor do they corroborate Meltzer's report. In fact, the latter just reports what Meltzer says (just like Alvarez did).
That's not suspicious?
it is, no doubt
but you expect fox/espn to investigate wrestlemania's record? even before they had a partnership with espn, i highly doubt they gave a ? about the records legitimacy. mostly because they dont see wwe as a sport
and now that they do have a partnership? forget it. this cross promotion between wwe and espn has been doing great things for both brands and they're not about to jeopardize it
Wrestlemania was covered on the local news going back to the 80s. Trying to cover it up with this "ESPN and WWE are partners," doesn't explain why there has never been any corroboration of a Meltzer report. This partnership is new.
During WM 23 WWE claimed to out draw the SUPERBOWL in the same building. You mean ESPN isn't interested in that?
You can always try to write it off like legit news sources don't care but no other writer corroborates Meltzer's report either. Some of these guys have been around for 10 years or better...none of them said "Well I talked to so and so and got this figure..." its always "WWE says _____ but Meltzer says _____"
they care about the super bowl game
not the attendance
also, WM is a big deal due to the attention and revenue it brings to the city. of course it gets coverage on local news
They care about all business revolving around sports. Not just the game but the building, the cost of the building, the ratings the game gets, the revenue from commercials etc ESPN at some point talks about all of that.
i dont remember the last time a super bowl attendance was announced on ESPN
i dont remember the last time the super bowl attendance was announced during a game
you have to be looking for the attendance to know the attendance
unlike wwe where they throw it in your face
Its not as important as other aspects, but if the game flopped I guarantee you will know. Superbowl does under X in revenue from tickets etc that will be news.
On television they will speak mostly about the game as that is the important thing. There is alot to talk about in just talking about the game, the rest of that ? is extra.
They still announce buys for boxing fights so they are keeping track of revenue versus expenditures. -
Why is it hard to grasp that Wwe lies
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StoneColdMikey wrote: »Why is it hard to grasp that Wwe lies
#marks -
the ? yall hating on this Mania for????? Because the E finally gave Zach Ryder some love??? They executed their og plans with Reigns without changing for these smarks??? Man ? out of here im a Kevin Owens fan all the way and hate Reigns but im still perfectly fine with what happened.
I watched this with a group of 10 people which half werent even die hard fans or watched anymore and everybody was highly entertained with the show outside of the long ass world title match. We all pretty much agreed this year Mania was one of the best ina while (yes better then WM31 which had the dud streak match and a mediocre title match as well with the only highlight being Bryan winning). Thrn i get on here and everybody ? on the show, quit being so smarky and just enjoy yourself. -
All this ? about
"Roman isn't ready"
"Roman sucks on the mic"
"Roman isn't charismatic"
you mean to tell me out the gate all the top stars were ready and didn't have rough starts?
were told they weren't "it" by fans?
is Ziggler or Bryan good the mic?
were Stunning Steve Austin, Rocky Mavia or Hunter Hurst Helmsley future champion guys?
Hogan was a great wrestler and wasn't bland on the mic as a face?
Andre the Giant was a great wrestler and great on the mic?
FOH...
Reigns wasn't ready when he won the rumble but at this point, it's now or never. Can't let the fans keep running the show. The past 3 years were changed due to fans. Punk, fans. Bryan, fans. Batista, fans. Reigns, fans. Let's not act like they didn't bend to the boo's and cheers they got during all these times.
Reigns is as ready as he can be, he will evolve and progress over time.
one word to trump all this^^^. "ORGANIC"....ish has to naturally happen. when Rock became champ for the first time , if memory service me correctly he was the rock...not "rocky mavia"....he flipped it on the fans when that ish wasnt working, when stone cold became champ he was "stone cold" not "the ring master".
Of course gimmicks taken time and go thru changes..but at the end of the day,ish has to happened naturally. Hogan was never bland on the mic...those were how all the 80s wrestlers talked...all of them, from mid -card on up. immediately when the mic was on them, they were hyped as *uck.
the problem with Reigns is his booking...they weren't smart enough to hide what he isn't good at and highlight what he is good at ..ala Jim Cornette had said that for years with these wrestlers...Vince just look and seen his"protype" guy and is running wiht it...thinking "we are gonna get him on the mic and he is gonna win over the fans, and make me money...he is the next rock, our next steven austin....blah blah"
There's a difference between being forced and being Organic. Dislike what the fans are doing all you want..but because of it..u now gotta pump-in fake cheering..yea that's good for your company right?
Letting things happen on their own is nice and all but how long would Roman need to be organic? Is it organic when the crowd cheers only? Because I feel no matter what Roman does, they will boo him. How much time is needed and when that time comes, does it end up being too late? This isn't always on a fans timing. They have their own ideas and stories to put forth to keep everything moving. If everything relies on it to be organic, then we have to deal with even ? writing and outcomes because they're waiting on fans. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up. See where this all goes. If Reigns isn't doing much in one, maybe two years, then he had his time to do his thing and he failed. Time for him/them to think things over and make changes for another opportunity. -
special moments for me was HBK coming out in ring gear and still looking in good shape as if he never left plus Austin and Foley who looked good as well. Plus Rock match (even if it was 5 secs) in ring gear out of nowhere. Zack finally getting what ue deserved years ago even tho i was hoping Kevin retained was awesome. Jericho and Styles did their damn thing, Jericho was really hitting some strides he has had in a while.
Also Shane jumping off the cell, MAN! nobody has even jumped/fell off the new tall cell structure since it was remodeled and i didnt even think he would jump from the top. I thought maybr he dropped a elbow mid way up the cage but nah! That spot looked AMAZING. Right man won and looking forward to Raw since Vince only said you have to fight 1 match but never saidnhe had to win so things could get interesting.
The girls put on a wrestling clinic and even tho Sasha should of won thr match was still great and the new title is A1. -
DAM.... I DONT KNOW NONE OF THESE FOLKS...
I KNOW THE DUDELY, HHH, CHRIS J AND THATS BOUT IT -
Bottom line: vince cares about Reigns ability to make money, full ? stop.
If gates are flopping, merch ain't selling they will change it up but if he is in the top 5 don't expect anything to change.
Its the same song yall were told about Cena, ain't nothing new under the sun.
Yall talking this organic ? but Reigns ended up a face due to Rollins turning heel and the Shield organically turned face. All the Roman hate stems from a Meltzer report that Roman was the "New Cena." He was not being booed before then, and even now its just a vocal minority.
Everyone is overreacting. -
Yea, HBK lookin in good shape gave me hope that we could see Seth vs HBK one day if HBK is down for it, but it most likely won't happen bc he loves that his last match was against Taker at Mania
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Think about it tho, new day should have won but I'm not mad at lon cuz if they ain't win they might as well have been future endeavored
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Awesome mania
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All this ? about
"Roman isn't ready"
"Roman sucks on the mic"
"Roman isn't charismatic"
you mean to tell me out the gate all the top stars were ready and didn't have rough starts?
were told they weren't "it" by fans?
is Ziggler or Bryan good the mic?
were Stunning Steve Austin, Rocky Mavia or Hunter Hurst Helmsley future champion guys?
Hogan was a great wrestler and wasn't bland on the mic as a face?
Andre the Giant was a great wrestler and great on the mic?
FOH...
Reigns wasn't ready when he won the rumble but at this point, it's now or never. Can't let the fans keep running the show. The past 3 years were changed due to fans. Punk, fans. Bryan, fans. Batista, fans. Reigns, fans. Let's not act like they didn't bend to the boo's and cheers they got during all these times.
Reigns is as ready as he can be, he will evolve and progress over time.
one word to trump all this^^^. "ORGANIC"....ish has to naturally happen. when Rock became champ for the first time , if memory service me correctly he was the rock...not "rocky mavia"....he flipped it on the fans when that ish wasnt working, when stone cold became champ he was "stone cold" not "the ring master".
Of course gimmicks taken time and go thru changes..but at the end of the day,ish has to happened naturally. Hogan was never bland on the mic...those were how all the 80s wrestlers talked...all of them, from mid -card on up. immediately when the mic was on them, they were hyped as *uck.
the problem with Reigns is his booking...they weren't smart enough to hide what he isn't good at and highlight what he is good at ..ala Jim Cornette had said that for years with these wrestlers...Vince just look and seen his"protype" guy and is running wiht it...thinking "we are gonna get him on the mic and he is gonna win over the fans, and make me money...he is the next rock, our next steven austin....blah blah"
There's a difference between being forced and being Organic. Dislike what the fans are doing all you want..but because of it..u now gotta pump-in fake cheering..yea that's good for your company right?
Letting things happen on their own is nice and all but how long would Roman need to be organic? Is it organic when the crowd cheers only? Because I feel no matter what Roman does, they will boo him. How much time is needed and when that time comes, does it end up being too late? This isn't always on a fans timing. They have their own ideas and stories to put forth to keep everything moving. If everything relies on it to be organic, then we have to deal with even ? writing and outcomes because they're waiting on fans. Sometimes you just gotta suck it up. See where this all goes. If Reigns isn't doing much in one, maybe two years, then he had his time to do his thing and he failed. Time for him/them to think things over and make changes for another opportunity.
i'm not saying "organic" has to be on the fans timing. "Organic" as in "let it fallen into place naturally"..It's obvious if they want a face to go over, they want the fans support right, right. That's just good t.v. and product sells. I'm not saying the fans have to always decide who wins or who loses.
if Reigns is what you the wwe want, then like someone said before, he isn't good on the mic and needs to work on his charisma....ok, keep him as the "strong silent type" while working on his mic skills and charisma (off camera, house shows even,)...give him a mouth piece
if he is catching heat...turn him heel then(same way rock flipped it, bautisa had to as well)...still work on his mic skills and charisma, still give him a mouth piece if need be.....everyone likes a good heel i.e. kevin owens..
once the fans buy into disliking him so much, they will start to like him and then you can make the face turn and reap the benefits the way you wanted from the get go.
and as i'm given you these examples he would be champ for any of those scenarios...so there's no waiting for the fans to like him to be champ...there's just a better way of booking him while he is champ. Going back to my orig. points. The fans dont like Reigns because the way he was booked and forced on the fans ...the ? fans are NEVER gonna go along with it..it's been like that for decades in wrestling.
Vince was more in tune and a visionary back in his prime. He clearly is not now.
