To those who believe in the power of prayer, does ? or the heavens keep a waiting list?
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kingblaze84 wrote: »@kingblaze84
To ? be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask ? to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent ? will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The ? of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the ? of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
? seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want ? to do what you want him to do. YOU want ? to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. ? is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel ? then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul.
So if so many Jews these days and even back then doubted the Abrahamic ? was real, why should anyone else take it seriously? And the ? of Abraham is not really doing anything, it is people who BELIEVE the Abrahamic ? is real who have some influence in the world (a ton of it bad).
As far as America never having an atheist president, what's your point, there have been several non-religious presidents. Thomas Jefferson talked a lot of ? about Christianity and Judaism, Benjamin Franklin and some other Founding Fathers weren't big fans of Torah and Christian doctrine either. THEIR influence is a big part of the reason there is a separation between church and state, which is one of the greatest things about the Constitution. Nations that have religion dictating their laws often have repressive societies filled with angry people.
And I already did the whole "submitting" to Jesus thing, I actually felt unhappy at those later times being Christian because I felt like I was worshipping a giant, lazy ? who isn't doing anything. As I got more involved with history and science, I actually became more disgusted being Christian and knew I couldn't respect such a lazy being. I never became atheist though, though I came close a few times.
And why do you think people continue to believe and have believed in this ? for thousands of years??? while the believers of other gods have basically gone on the endangered soon to be extinct list.... could it not be because the ? of Abraham is actually real and those who believe in him have actually had real contact with him the way they say they have.
My point in saying that america won't have an atheist president was to prove to you that the religions of the ? of abraham still exert alot of influence on the world while the religions of the other gods have very little comparative influence... almost none really. None of the founding fathers were atheist, they had their own views but they were not atheist. WE HAVE separation between church and state not because the founding fathers were atheist but because they did not want to repeat the inter-christian religious wars that europe had went through.
Your last paragraph just affirmed my critique of you.... You call ? lazy, why??? because he won't do what you want him to do when you want him to do it, someone not doing what we want in s timely manner is the only logical reason for calling them lazy. So by you calling ? lazy what you are saying is that ? must do what you want when you want. If you really submitted yourself to ? you would not be praying with selfish intentions and expectations of ? DOING your will like he's some kind of genie. You say ? is not doing anything but how do you know??? you don't know. ? does a lot for us that many people cannot perceive especially people like you who have no relationship with him and reject and curse him every chance you get.
when you woke up this morning and you took that first breath.... ? just did something for you , start being thankful for that before you start making demands of the ultimate master of the universe -
Ajackson17 wrote: »I think it's disingenuous to say that Judiasm is a total rip and has no influences from other religions. Humans trade ideas when there is trade and commerce.
This is true, Judaism isn't a TOTAL ripoff of other religions but its founders definitely took influences from other religions of its time and before its time.
Not much different then Christianity and Islam taking elements from the Torah and likely other religions. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »The ? of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
No he is not and that theory has been debunked a long time ago
Are you sure about that? Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? It came before Judaism and came from the ancient Persians. Judaism as we know it now is directly influenced from Zoroastrinism, don't act like Judaism is the oldest religion in the world. Judaism acknowledges the presence of other gods and as you already know, the ? of of Abraham acts no different then the other "gods" out there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/z_influence_abrahamic.htm
Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique... among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian Prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda, (Wise Lord) as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will are said to have influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5
Second Temple Judaism is Judaism between the construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, c. 515 BCE, and its destruction by the Romans in 70 CE. The development of the Hebrew Bible canon, the synagogue, Jewish apocalyptic expectations for the future, and Christianity, can all be traced to Second Temple times.
I KNOW ABOUT ZOROASTRIANISM AND IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT BELIEF and judaism does not acknowledge the existence of other gods as being real it acknowledges them as being false
Zoroastrinism came before Judaism as we know it now and the elements are very similar, keep it real. It's not a TOTALLY different belief from Judaism, that's a bold faced lie. There are a ton of similarities. Judaism did a LOT of copy catting from Zoroastrinism......
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jud_zor.htm
It's a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other. Most scholars believe that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angiology, demonology, and resurrection. Also the monotheistic conception of Yahweh may have been changed or influenced by being opposed to the dualism of the Persians.
In both faiths ? is omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal, and creator of the universe. ? operates through and governs the universe with the use of angels and archangels. This presents a parallel to Yahweh that is found in the Old Testament. The Zoroastrianism Spenta Mainyu is the Christian "Holy Spirit."
Ahura Mazda's power is hampered by Ahriman (the Devil) and his host of demons. Their dominion like Satan's will be destroyed at the end of the world. The world is the Devil's domain. Zoroastrian eschatological teachings-the doctrines of a regenerate world, a perfect kingdom, the coming of a Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the life everlasting are nearly identical to Christianity.
--Let's face it, Judaism did a ? LOAD of copy catting from Zoroastrinism.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »@kingblaze84
To ? be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask ? to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent ? will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The ? of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the ? of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
? seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want ? to do what you want him to do. YOU want ? to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. ? is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel ? then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul.
So if so many Jews these days and even back then doubted the Abrahamic ? was real, why should anyone else take it seriously? And the ? of Abraham is not really doing anything, it is people who BELIEVE the Abrahamic ? is real who have some influence in the world (a ton of it bad).
As far as America never having an atheist president, what's your point, there have been several non-religious presidents. Thomas Jefferson talked a lot of ? about Christianity and Judaism, Benjamin Franklin and some other Founding Fathers weren't big fans of Torah and Christian doctrine either. THEIR influence is a big part of the reason there is a separation between church and state, which is one of the greatest things about the Constitution. Nations that have religion dictating their laws often have repressive societies filled with angry people.
And I already did the whole "submitting" to Jesus thing, I actually felt unhappy at those later times being Christian because I felt like I was worshipping a giant, lazy ? who isn't doing anything. As I got more involved with history and science, I actually became more disgusted being Christian and knew I couldn't respect such a lazy being. I never became atheist though, though I came close a few times.
And why do you think people continue to believe and have believed in this ? for thousands of years??? while the believers of other gods have basically gone on the endangered soon to be extinct list.... could it not be because the ? of Abraham is actually real and those who believe in him have actually had real contact with him the way they say they have.
My point in saying that america won't have an atheist president was to prove to you that the religions of the ? of abraham still exert alot of influence on the world while the religions of the other gods have very little comparative influence... almost none really. None of the founding fathers were atheist, they had their own views but they were not atheist. WE HAVE separation between church and state not because the founding fathers were atheist but because they did not want to repeat the inter-christian religious wars that europe had went through.
Your last paragraph just affirmed my critique of you.... You call ? lazy, why??? because he won't do what you want him to do when you want him to do it, someone not doing what we want in s timely manner is the only logical reason for calling them lazy. So by you calling ? lazy what you are saying is that ? must do what you want when you want. If you really submitted yourself to ? you would not be praying with selfish intentions and expectations of ? DOING your will like he's some kind of genie. You say ? is not doing anything but how do you know??? you don't know. ? does a lot for us that many people cannot perceive especially people like you who have no relationship with him and reject and curse him every chance you get.
when you woke up this morning and you took that first breath.... ? just did something for you , start being thankful for that before you start making demands of the ultimate master of the universe
If you believe people REALLY had contact with the Bible ? , why is it hard to believe that people may have been visited by the Hindu gods Kali and Shiva? If you believe your ? is so real, then maybe you should be open to other gods being real too, you have just as much proof as Hindus, Odin worshippers and animists do. Millions or billions worship other gods, whether you accept that or not.
And the gods of other religions are definitely influential, what the hell are you talking about??? Horus influenced the story of Jesus, Ahura from Zoroastrinism influenced the story of Yahweh. Hindu gods are influential in India, a nation made up of a BILLION PLUS people. Stop the arrogance when you have nothing to back it up with.
By the way I'm always grateful for every breath I take, but who is the ultimate master of the universe? Is it Ahura, the Persian ? who helped influence the story of Yahweh? Or is it Horus, the Egyptian ? who helped influence the story of Jesus?
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kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »The ? of Abraham is basically a rip off of other religions anyway
No he is not and that theory has been debunked a long time ago
Are you sure about that? Have you ever heard of Zoroastrianism? It came before Judaism and came from the ancient Persians. Judaism as we know it now is directly influenced from Zoroastrinism, don't act like Judaism is the oldest religion in the world. Judaism acknowledges the presence of other gods and as you already know, the ? of of Abraham acts no different then the other "gods" out there
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zoroastrianism
http://www.cais-soas.com/CAIS/Religions/iranian/Zarathushtrian/z_influence_abrahamic.htm
Zoroastrianism,[n 1] or more natively Mazdayasna,[1] is one of the world's oldest religions, "combining a cosmogonic dualism and eschatological monotheism in a manner unique... among the major religions of the world."[2] Ascribed to the teachings of the Iranian Prophet Zoroaster (or Zarathustra),[3] he exalted their deity of wisdom, Ahura Mazda, (Wise Lord) as its Supreme Being.[4] Leading characteristics, such as messianism, heaven and hell, and free will are said to have influenced other religious systems, including Second Temple Judaism, Gnosticism, Christianity, and Islam.[5
Second Temple Judaism is Judaism between the construction of the Second Temple in Jerusalem, c. 515 BCE, and its destruction by the Romans in 70 CE. The development of the Hebrew Bible canon, the synagogue, Jewish apocalyptic expectations for the future, and Christianity, can all be traced to Second Temple times.
I KNOW ABOUT ZOROASTRIANISM AND IT'S A TOTALLY DIFFERENT BELIEF and judaism does not acknowledge the existence of other gods as being real it acknowledges them as being false
Zoroastrinism came before Judaism as we know it now and the elements are very similar, keep it real. It's not a TOTALLY different belief from Judaism, that's a bold faced lie. There are a ton of similarities. Judaism did a LOT of copy catting from Zoroastrinism......
http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/mine/jud_zor.htm
It's a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other. Most scholars believe that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angiology, demonology, and resurrection. Also the monotheistic conception of Yahweh may have been changed or influenced by being opposed to the dualism of the Persians.
In both faiths ? is omniscient, omnipresent, and eternal, and creator of the universe. ? operates through and governs the universe with the use of angels and archangels. This presents a parallel to Yahweh that is found in the Old Testament. The Zoroastrianism Spenta Mainyu is the Christian "Holy Spirit."
Ahura Mazda's power is hampered by Ahriman (the Devil) and his host of demons. Their dominion like Satan's will be destroyed at the end of the world. The world is the Devil's domain. Zoroastrian eschatological teachings-the doctrines of a regenerate world, a perfect kingdom, the coming of a Messiah, the resurrection of the dead, and the life everlasting are nearly identical to Christianity.
--Let's face it, Judaism did a ? LOAD of copy catting from Zoroastrinism.
This theory has already been debunked
" First of all, the earliest writing down of the scripture of Zoroastrianism was in the fourth century AD (yes, AD). The oldest manuscript we have of the Avesta–the principle scripture of Zoroastrianism–is from the fourteenth century AD. Most of the claimed parallels between Jesus and Zoroaster are not found at all in the Avesta. The few which are can more easily be explained as coincidence (in other words, different religions will sometimes have similar characteristics) or because of borrowing from Christianity into Zoroastrianism, rather than the reverse, because the Christian scripture predates the Zoroastrian scripture. As for parallels, there is an idea of ? resurrection in Zoroastrianism. Whether this was included in the religion before the time of Christ is hard to say, but what we can say is that, in any case, the Avesta does not claim that Zoroaster himself was resurrected from the dead. So much for the parallel between Jesus and Zoroaster and for the idea that the church got the idea of the resurrection from the Avesta. Other parallels have been claimed by Jesus-Mythers. They claim that Zoroaster was baptized in a river. There is no mention of this in any Zoroastrian scripture. They claim that his was a ? birth. The Avesta refers to a “kingly glory” that was inherited by Zoroaster through is mother, but it is hard to see this as equivalent to a ? birth. Another claim is that Zoroaster, like Jesus, was tempted by Satan in the wilderness. There is perhaps some parallel here, as Zoroaster was tempted for ten years (rather than forty days) by a sub-demon named J. Buiti, not by the Zoroastrian equivalent of Satan (who, by the way is not equivalent to Satan, but who is equal to Ahura Mazda in power).
The analysis could continue, but if one considers the claims of parallelism, they are generally non-existent or over-blown. The ones which are perhaps arguably indeed parallel are more likely explained by borrowing of Zoroastrianism from Christianity than vice-versa, given the date of the writing of these scriptures. More likely, they are simply independent writings. Either way, the idea that the resurrection of Jesus was a fabrication of the early Christians, stolen from Zoroastrianism is absolutely untenable. No rational person could accept this thesis unless from some sort of extreme bias."
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Judaism is older than the Zoroastrianism we have today so Judaism did not copy from them it makes more sense to say that they copied from not only judaism but also Christianity
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Zoroastrinism was spread mostly by oral traditions in ancient days, just as many other religions were spread historically. Most people back then couldn't even read, so people writing the stories of Zoroastrinism until 4th century AD is not a total surprise to me. But the ancient Greeks and others wrote about the beliefs of Zoroastrinism in BC days
http://op-ed.the-environmentalist.org/2007/04/zoroastrianisms-influence-on-judaism.html
Zoroastrianism was the dominant world religion from 559 BCE to 651 CE, and was thus the most powerful world religion at the time of Jesus. It had a major influence on other religions and is still practiced world-wide.
Those other religions that Zoroastrianism influenced?
Western Abrahamic (Judaism, Christianity, Islam) and Eastern Dharmic (Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Sikhism) religious traditions, including ? , the Devil, sexual equality, evolution, environmentalism, etc.....
"Zoroastrianism is the oldest of the revealed world-religions, and it has probably had more influence on mankind, directly and indirectly, than any other single faith." - Mary Boyce, Zoroastrians: Their Religious Beliefs and Practices (London: Routledge and Kegan Paul, 1979, p. 1)
"Zoroaster was thus the first to teach the doctrines of an individual judgment, Heaven and Hell, the future resurrection of the body, the general Last Judgment, and life everlasting for the reunited soul and body. These doctrines were to become familiar articles of faith to much of mankind, through borrowings by Judaism, Christianity and Islam; yet it is in Zoroastrianism itself that they have their fullest logical coherence....” - Mary Boyce, Op. Cit. p. 29.
http://www.avesta.org/avesta.html
--Most religious scholars worldwide agree Judaism was absolutely influenced by Zoroastrinism. The similarities are too similar to ignore. So once again, is Yahweh the ultimate master, or is it Ahura??
Or maybe another secret ? that hasn't revealed itself to the world yet. Or maybe all the gods are dead and aliens are the ones in control now. Can't say for sure either way. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »@kingblaze84
To ? be the Glory does not equal blame or responsibility I JUST WENT OVER THIS WITH YOU, the term "naturally bad" makes no sense to me because good or bad are subjective terms. Is death bad??? is suffering bad??? my answer is it DEPENDS ON the context of the situation. If you are asking me who is responsible for "natural death" meaning DEATH caused by disease or earthquakes and things like that then the answer is simple... HUMANITY IS RESPONSIBLE.
DEATH CAME INTO creation as a result of Sin... if there were no sin in the world there would be no death this was explained in the allegorical story of adam and eve. The death sin connection is one of the messages of that story. I am not saying that the child will die because she or the mother are sinful i am saying that death is a part of our shared reality because of human sin and how death and why death is dished out is mostly random. Your homegirl has no one to blame. She can pray and ask ? to heal the child and maybe he will if it's in his will to do so. Therefore if we submit ourselves to him in faith, to a certain extent ? will bend if not break the rules of the reality mankind has created for ourselves BUT we must submit ourselves to him in faith. HOWEVER sometimes he won't physically heal you because he has other plans.
As for the jews, even back in the O.T there were jews that fell off the path it's a recurring event in the bible so the fact that today there are many atheist jews or people born jewish and then become atheist is not really a shocking event. The ? of abraham is extremely influential why do you think america can never have an openly atheist president?? people won't vote for one why?? because the belief in the ? of abraham is too strong and that belief dictates that atheist are fools and no one is going to elect anyone they think is a fool. The books influence are one of his main methods of influence.
? seems like an absentee to YOU because YOU cannot feel him and don't know HIM BUT to those of us who can feel his presence in our lives we know he is very much real. LIKE I ALWAYS TELL YOU one of your main problems is that you want ? to do what you want him to do. YOU want ? to prove himself to YOU in the way YOU want him to but SORRY but it does not work that way. ? is not going to bow to You.
You want to feel ? then you have to submit You have to BOW and YOU have to surrender YOUR heart, mind, body and soul.
So if so many Jews these days and even back then doubted the Abrahamic ? was real, why should anyone else take it seriously? And the ? of Abraham is not really doing anything, it is people who BELIEVE the Abrahamic ? is real who have some influence in the world (a ton of it bad).
As far as America never having an atheist president, what's your point, there have been several non-religious presidents. Thomas Jefferson talked a lot of ? about Christianity and Judaism, Benjamin Franklin and some other Founding Fathers weren't big fans of Torah and Christian doctrine either. THEIR influence is a big part of the reason there is a separation between church and state, which is one of the greatest things about the Constitution. Nations that have religion dictating their laws often have repressive societies filled with angry people.
And I already did the whole "submitting" to Jesus thing, I actually felt unhappy at those later times being Christian because I felt like I was worshipping a giant, lazy ? who isn't doing anything. As I got more involved with history and science, I actually became more disgusted being Christian and knew I couldn't respect such a lazy being. I never became atheist though, though I came close a few times.
And why do you think people continue to believe and have believed in this ? for thousands of years??? while the believers of other gods have basically gone on the endangered soon to be extinct list.... could it not be because the ? of Abraham is actually real and those who believe in him have actually had real contact with him the way they say they have.
My point in saying that america won't have an atheist president was to prove to you that the religions of the ? of abraham still exert alot of influence on the world while the religions of the other gods have very little comparative influence... almost none really. None of the founding fathers were atheist, they had their own views but they were not atheist. WE HAVE separation between church and state not because the founding fathers were atheist but because they did not want to repeat the inter-christian religious wars that europe had went through.
Your last paragraph just affirmed my critique of you.... You call ? lazy, why??? because he won't do what you want him to do when you want him to do it, someone not doing what we want in s timely manner is the only logical reason for calling them lazy. So by you calling ? lazy what you are saying is that ? must do what you want when you want. If you really submitted yourself to ? you would not be praying with selfish intentions and expectations of ? DOING your will like he's some kind of genie. You say ? is not doing anything but how do you know??? you don't know. ? does a lot for us that many people cannot perceive especially people like you who have no relationship with him and reject and curse him every chance you get.
when you woke up this morning and you took that first breath.... ? just did something for you , start being thankful for that before you start making demands of the ultimate master of the universe
If you believe people REALLY had contact with the Bible ? , why is it hard to believe that people may have been visited by the Hindu gods Kali and Shiva? If you believe your ? is so real, then maybe you should be open to other gods being real too, you have just as much proof as Hindus, Odin worshippers and animists do. Millions or billions worship other gods, whether you accept that or not.
And the gods of other religions are definitely influential, what the hell are you talking about??? Horus influenced the story of Jesus, Ahura from Zoroastrinism influenced the story of Yahweh. Hindu gods are influential in India, a nation made up of a BILLION PLUS people. Stop the arrogance when you have nothing to back it up with.
By the way I'm always grateful for every breath I take, but who is the ultimate master of the universe? Is it Ahura, the Persian ? who helped influence the story of Yahweh? Or is it Horus, the Egyptian ? who helped influence the story of Jesus?
another theory that has been debunked
just off the top of my head i know that list is ? because Horus was not a ? birth isis reconstructed the body and ? of osiris ? him and has horus.... therefore she was not a ? .
JESUS birthday may be celebrated on the 25 of december but the bible does not record him being born on that day or even in that season.
i am totally sure that if i went thought that whole list it would be mostly ? and conjecture but i don't have to go down the list because other people have done it already -
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@zzombie
Even if that list isn't 100% correct, there are still many similarities between Horus (who came first) and the story of Jesus. I can mention books and religious scholar articles that can break down how the powers of Jesus and his "stories" were already seen in Horus 5000 years ago, but there's too many to mention.
My point is that you can ridicule other gods but OTHER GODS and the stories behind them are the ones who helped form and influence the story of the ? you believe in. Don't act like the Bible ? is the only influential "? " around, you got nothing to back that up with. -
Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
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kingblaze84 wrote: »Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that . -
kingblaze84 wrote: »@zzombie
Even if that list isn't 100% correct, there are still many similarities between Horus (who came first) and the story of Jesus. I can mention books and religious scholar articles that can break down how the powers of Jesus and his "stories" were already seen in Horus 5000 years ago, but there's too many to mention.
My point is that you can ridicule other gods but OTHER GODS and the stories behind them are the ones who helped form and influence the story of the ? you believe in. Don't act like the Bible ? is the only influential "? " around, you got nothing to back that up with.
There are really almost no similarities the whole theory is based on conjecture logical fallacies. -
Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.
AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago ? if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.
first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .
Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. -
Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.
AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago ? if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.
first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events
Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest. -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .
Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.
No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.
The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other
way around.
Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic
"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults." -
Now look, we don't have any persian text or wall carvings to prove that zoroastorianism was older all the scholars are are doing is drawing parallels but since judaism we know for a fact is older that the zoroastiriaism we have, it is more sensible to think that judaism influenced them and not the other way around except in that the jews were actually strengthened in monotheism.
-
kingblaze84 wrote: »Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.
AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago ? if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.
first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events
Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.
To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this ? in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.
in most places on earth today if you mention ? to someone they are automatically going to think of the ? of abraham and that's pretty impressive -
kingblaze84 wrote: »Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.
AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago ? if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.
first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events
Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.
To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this ? in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.
in most places on earth today if you mention ? to someone they are automatically going to think of the ? of abraham and that's pretty impressive
The Abrahamic ? isn't ruling humanity though, I don't see it in Norway or Sweden where most people are non-religious. It's not seen in China or North Korea where the government is officially atheist. Don't see it in Iraq where thousands of Christians were killed off or enslaved, is this the ruling of humanity I'm supposed to be impressed with?
People throughout the world have different ideas on who or what ? is, when I think of "? ", I think of all the thousands of gods that have supposedly existed or exist out there. There is no one ? , people throughout the world pray to all kinds of different gods, Jews only make up 1 percent of the world and it's questionable if Muslims even worship the same ? as Christians do. So no, I'm not really impressed with the Abrahamic ? lol -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .
Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.
No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.
The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other
way around.
Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic
"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."
There are different theories on the true origins of Zoroastrianism but it is very possible Zoroaster incorporated older ideas into the religion he made popular, Zoroastrianism, as most scholars agree Zoroastrianism was around before 2nd temple Judaism (the period which created Hebrew canon).
I do understand some scholars disagree with that, but it's still very interesting that most scholars agree Zoroastrianism in SOME FORM is older then the Judaism we know of now. Even more interesting is that the same article you mentioned admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism as we know it now. Why do you think most Jewish scholars believe Zoroastrinism influenced Judaism......? -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .
Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.
No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.
The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other
way around.
Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic
"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."
There are different theories on the true origins of Zoroastrianism but it is very possible Zoroaster incorporated older ideas into the religion he made popular, Zoroastrianism, as most scholars agree Zoroastrianism was around before 2nd temple Judaism (the period which created Hebrew canon).
I do understand some scholars disagree with that, but it's still very interesting that most scholars agree Zoroastrianism in SOME FORM is older then the Judaism we know of now. Even more interesting is that the same article you mentioned admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism as we know it now. Why do you think most Jewish scholars believe Zoroastrinism influenced Judaism......?
We don't know what that form was so the thought that zoroastrinism as we know it today is older than judaism is a faulty one, for all we know before the actual zoroastor was born the religion we are calling zoroastrinism was totally different. Perhaps their concept of ? was totally different FROM WHAT it became under zoroastor. WE can never know but what we do know is that judaism existed before zoroastor was born
Listen there is judaism the culture and there is judaism the religion..... the bible records that the persians did influence jewish culture because the jews were in exile from there land and had to live among persians, but the persian people did not influence the jewish religion. There is a similar phenomenon in islam, where you have islam the religion and then you have the different cultures of different groups of muslims.
-
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Zoroastrianism argument just needs to be dead because clearly it makes no sense and to make it make sense you have to fill in too many blanks.
AS for the Egyptian influences i will admit Egypt had some influence on the Jews but not the core beliefs of the Jewish religion. ALL the comparison to Horus have been debunked a long time ago ? if people would just read the bible they would have seen that any comparison is false and is nothing more than a stretch.
first of all if you are talking about the egyptian gods which version of events are you going with??? the stories of Egyptian mythology have multiple endings, character changes and differences for the same events
Yahweh has some unique characteristics, I'll admit to that, but it's just one of many gods at the end of the day. No more impressive then the rest.
To you maybe.... but in reality the belief in this ? in some form has basically been ruling humanity for hundreds of years and no other deity in human history has done that. If that alone does not send off some bells in your head then you are just being willfully ignorant.
in most places on earth today if you mention ? to someone they are automatically going to think of the ? of abraham and that's pretty impressive
The Abrahamic ? isn't ruling humanity though, I don't see it in Norway or Sweden where most people are non-religious. It's not seen in China or North Korea where the government is officially atheist. Don't see it in Iraq where thousands of Christians were killed off or enslaved, is this the ruling of humanity I'm supposed to be impressed with?
People throughout the world have different ideas on who or what ? is, when I think of "? ", I think of all the thousands of gods that have supposedly existed or exist out there. There is no one ? , people throughout the world pray to all kinds of different gods, Jews only make up 1 percent of the world and it's questionable if Muslims even worship the same ? as Christians do. So no, I'm not really impressed with the Abrahamic ? lol
I was not being so literal but even those nations you mentioned have a christian heritage.... and it's even seen in their flag the yellow cross on the swedish flag represents Christianity. CHINA has a growing and young christian population
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/asia/china/10776023/China-on-course-to-become-worlds-most-Christian-nation-within-15-years.html
Noth korea is an insane hermit kingdom and really cannot be compared to anyplace or talked about too reliably
I did not SAY CHRISTIANITY WAS RULING EVERYWHERE, you are selectively reading again. i said the ? of abraham was basically ruling humanity so what i was saying is that the influence of the belief in the ? most people think abraham worshipped is ubiquitous, and that includes the entire islamic world because THEY THINK THEY ARE WORSHIPING THE ? OF ABRAHAM AND THAT THE REST OF US ARE JUST DOING IT WRONG. But the fact still remains that their conception of ? is drawn from abraham.
Most people through out this world, when they stop and ponder on ? are stoping to think of the ? of abraham, that includes all of africa,south america and the vast majority of north america and the scattered millions of people in asia and even europe still has a christian population especially in russia a place that was once officially atheist now has a resurgent Christian population.
"Christianity in Russia is by some estimates the largest religion in the country, with nearly 50% of the population identifying as Christian. The largest tradition is the Russian Orthodox Church. By official information, there are 68 eparchies of Russian Orthodox Church." -
kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »kingblaze84 wrote: »Videos now?? Lol aight put up the biased, Christian made videos if you want, but religious scholars from around the world have already proved how Zoroastrinism and the Egyptian gods influenced Judaism and Christianity. I can put up videos that show the exact opposite of all that, but I'll stick to SCHOLAR articles and research.
No they have not, The scholarship that says that Judaism comes from Zoroastrianism had been discredited and debunked for the reason i already gave you. Zoroaster was not even born when the foundations of Judaism were already in existence if you want me to pull up accredited scholars that prove you wrong i can do that .
Zoroastrinism is older according to MOST scholars, Zoroaster is the "prophet" who made Zoroastrinist beliefs popular and most scholars agree he may be much older then previously thought. Remember, the Avesta was written fairly late in AD times but even the Jewish Encyclopedia admits most Jewish scholars agree Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrinism.....even if you don't believe Zoroastrinism is older, you have already admitted the Egyptian gods influenced Jewish thought on gods and divine intervention
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/15283-zoroastrianism
It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians.
No i've looked into this issue and there is much confusion surrounding the claims you are making, most scholars don't say zoroastorism is older than jusdiasm, they say that the religion that predated zoroastorism is older... zoroastor was born well after moses was supposed to have been born SO the RELGION he created LOGICALLY COULD NOT HAVE COME BEFORE JUDAISM, what he did was create his own religion based on a pervious persian religion... HOWEVER WE DON'T KNOW WHAT ELEMENTS ZOROASTOR KEPT FROM THAT RELGION OR WHAT HE MADE innovated because there are no records of that relgion that survived through time.
The bible records well that the jews had contact with persia and since judaism was already well established among them it is more likely that elements of judaism went into zoroastorism than the other
way around.
Lol stop selectively reading read the whole thing that you post and apply logic
"It is difficult to account for these analogies. It is known, of course, as a historic fact that the Jews and the Persians came in contact with each other at an early period in antiquity and remained in more or less close relation throughout their history (see Avesta; Media; Persia). Most scholars, Jewish as well as non-Jewish, are of the opinion that Judaism was strongly influenced by Zoroastrianism in views relating to angelology and demonology, and probably also in the doctrine of the resurrection, as well as in eschatological ideas in general, and also that the monotheistic conception of Yhwh may have been quickened and strengthened by being opposed to the dualism or quasi-monotheism of the Persians. But, on the other hand, the late James Darmesteter advocated exactly the opposite view, maintaining that early Persian thought was strongly influenced by Jewish ideas. He insisted that the Avesta, as we have it, is of late origin and is much tinctured by foreign elements, especially those derived from Judaism, and also those taken from Neoplatonism through the writings of Philo Judæus. These views, put forward shortly before the French scholar's death in 1894, have been violently combated by specialists since that time, and can not be said to have met with decided favor on any side. At the present time it is impossible to settle the question; the truth lies probably somewhere between the radical extremes, and it is possible that when knowledge of the Assyrian and Babylonian religion is more precise in certain details, additional light may be thrown on the problem of the source of these analogies, and may show the likelihood of a common influence at work upon both the Persian and Jewish cults."
There are different theories on the true origins of Zoroastrianism but it is very possible Zoroaster incorporated older ideas into the religion he made popular, Zoroastrianism, as most scholars agree Zoroastrianism was around before 2nd temple Judaism (the period which created Hebrew canon).
I do understand some scholars disagree with that, but it's still very interesting that most scholars agree Zoroastrianism in SOME FORM is older then the Judaism we know of now. Even more interesting is that the same article you mentioned admits most Jewish scholars agree Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism as we know it now. Why do you think most Jewish scholars believe Zoroastrinism influenced Judaism......?
We don't know what that form was so the thought that zoroastrinism as we know it today is older than judaism is a faulty one, for all we know before the actual zoroastor was born the religion we are calling zoroastrinism was totally different. Perhaps their concept of ? was totally different FROM WHAT it became under zoroastor. WE can never know but what we do know is that judaism existed before zoroastor was born
Listen there is judaism the culture and there is judaism the religion..... the bible records that the persians did influence jewish culture because the jews were in exile from there land and had to live among persians, but the persian people did not influence the jewish religion. There is a similar phenomenon in islam, where you have islam the religion and then you have the different cultures of different groups of muslims.
According to most Jewish scholars either way, Zoroastrianism influenced Judaism, not just Jewish culture. Zoroaster's age is still being debated among many. You never answered as to why most Jewish scholars are in agreement that Zoroastrianism in some form influenced Judaism, why would most Jewish scholars agree on this? If even most of them can admit this, then the evidence most be convincing.
Ezra, one of the people who helped invent the Judasim of current canon around 400 BC, was greatly influenced by Zoroastrianism according to most JEWISH SCHOLARS. Think on that.
http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0200PersiaJudaism.php#judaism
How Persia Created Judaism: Persian and Jewish Religion
Zoroaster had subjected the Iranian tribal gods to the one Most High ? , Ahuramazda. Ezra, at the behest of the Persian king, did the same in Yehud. Around 400 BC, with Jerusalem Persian, Ezra and Nehemiah invented Judaism. They made the Jewish gods into a single monotheistic ? akin to Ahuramazda, and the Judahites into a civilized people.
Zoroastrianism was the source of Jewish monotheism, brought from “exile” on the “return” (Isa 43:10-13; Jer 10:1-16). Even Christian scholars note that the concept of Ahuramazda is closer to that of the Jewish ? than that of any other eastern religion. The old Israelites of the Palestinian hill country were not monotheists. Before it was remodelled by the Persians, Judaism was polytheistic.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G-oyKtCvdL4
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pwp8DtPjCQ