Straight Black Men Are the White People of Black People
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Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
LmfaoI'm sick of this "but but but black women get treated the worst" ? . It divides us as a people and usually generates from man hating ? or ? ass dudes raised by man hating ? .
I don't know any black man that would argue that our sisters don't have it as hard as us, we in this ? together. However we are attacked on different fronts, in different ways. The only thing we should be doing is trying to build together instead of trying to make enemies out of each other. The problem is there's a large segment of our sisters who want attention and control. So they make us out to be on par with the white man's evilness.
ironic. Post is ironic.
Doesn't make it any less true. And I'll say the same thing about black men who hate black women simply out of their experiences with the bad ones they've chosen. It goes both way but here we're talking about the monster we are being made out to be by our own community.
yes or no - are there black men who are monsters?
Of course. But are all or even the vast majority? This article seems to try and insinuate that.
okay I didn't interpret that. My whole point is there are many black men Who don't give a ? about issues that are concerning black women, ? black people, trans black people. Anything that doesn't fit into their straight male box. A lot like white people. That's all I'm saying. that doesn't mean that it's all black men or most black men or half of black men their means that there is a population that doesn't really give a ? about the rest of black people.
So if it's not all, most or even half then why is this being constantly pushed?
blk women have to take a look in the mirror as well
that said, yes, not all blk men are misogynistic or sexist or violent woman beaters ...that is not the argument
the issue is when we try to speak on misogyny and issues that impact blk women specifically , our concerns are met with push back or dismissed or we are met with silence
primarily silence
for example, i rarely have observed blk men speak out against the misogyny within our society or even within their own circle
but there is an argument to be made that while you may not be misogynistic " allowing our cousins and brothers and co-workers and friends to use misogynistic language propagates that culture of danger for blk women."
Misogyny is a male issue, not a black male issue. And the fact that you and your gang keep trying to make it out to be one; and only hold black men accountable for it in context, is honestly frustrating to deal with.
Its easier to just dismiss it and keep it moving.
Nobody said that. Of course it's a male issue. Furthermore, alllll this ? stems from white supremacy. But we're here now, so why is it a problem to discuss black issues with black men?
Because its not a black male issue, its a male issue.
Its like you subconsciously feel that females of other races arent dealing with the same misogyny.
And it the line of thought goes right along with that ? /? supporting/swirl ? that all of these feminist are on recently. You directly tear at black masculinity but expect love at the same time. -
We're supposed to be having a discussion about issues within our own community tho....what everybody else is doing ain't the pointShizlansky wrote: »Ok.
Men mistreating women ain't exclusive to black women. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
LmfaoI'm sick of this "but but but black women get treated the worst" ? . It divides us as a people and usually generates from man hating ? or ? ass dudes raised by man hating ? .
I don't know any black man that would argue that our sisters don't have it as hard as us, we in this ? together. However we are attacked on different fronts, in different ways. The only thing we should be doing is trying to build together instead of trying to make enemies out of each other. The problem is there's a large segment of our sisters who want attention and control. So they make us out to be on par with the white man's evilness.
ironic. Post is ironic.
Doesn't make it any less true. And I'll say the same thing about black men who hate black women simply out of their experiences with the bad ones they've chosen. It goes both way but here we're talking about the monster we are being made out to be by our own community.
yes or no - are there black men who are monsters?
Of course. But are all or even the vast majority? This article seems to try and insinuate that.
okay I didn't interpret that. My whole point is there are many black men Who don't give a ? about issues that are concerning black women, ? black people, trans black people. Anything that doesn't fit into their straight male box. A lot like white people. That's all I'm saying. that doesn't mean that it's all black men or most black men or half of black men their means that there is a population that doesn't really give a ? about the rest of black people.
So if it's not all, most or even half then why is this being constantly pushed?
blk women have to take a look in the mirror as well
that said, yes, not all blk men are misogynistic or sexist or violent woman beaters ...that is not the argument
the issue is when we try to speak on misogyny and issues that impact blk women specifically , our concerns are met with push back or dismissed or we are met with silence
primarily silence
for example, i rarely have observed blk men speak out against the misogyny within our society or even within their own circle
but there is an argument to be made that while you may not be misogynistic " allowing our cousins and brothers and co-workers and friends to use misogynistic language propagates that culture of danger for blk women."
Misogyny is a male issue, not a black male issue. And the fact that you and your gang keep trying to make it out to be one; and only hold black men accountable for it in context, is honestly frustrating to deal with.
Its easier to just dismiss it and keep it moving.
Nobody said that. Of course it's a male issue. Furthermore, alllll this ? stems from white supremacy. But we're here now, so why is it a problem to discuss black issues with black men?
Because its not a black male issue, its a male issue.
Its like you subconsciously feel that females of other races arent dealing with the same misogyny.
And it the line of thought goes right along with that ? /? supporting/swirl ? that all of these feminist are on recently. You directly tear at black masculinity but expect love at the same time.
Oh so you think in society white and black women get treated the same? Are you kidding me? -
Like Water wrote: »VulcanRaven wrote: »to be real the regular straight working class black man is the one who gets treated the worst...
Westie u laughing but lets keep it real... what rights group speaks up for us? U got the whole ? agenda and the pushing of men to be feminine... feminist movements and women issues U got the whole tricking and money being whats important... so for the averege black man working check to check who aint ? who looks out or cares about them?
Are you a men's rights activist? I think you might be because you sound like those white guys. Let me ask you this Who gives a ? when a black Trans woman is killed? And might not be enough people but who is Marching In the Street For the black men who get killed by police? We Care meaning black women and a lot of ? Black people when it's y'all. Do you show up for black women, ? people who are black? Trans people who are black? Or do you not give a ? about them?
The first bold. Are you serious? When is the killer of a black trans person not prosecuted on murder and hate crimes? Trannies are actually protected by this country. Even the black ones.
The second. Black women are not targeted like black men, but black males have shown much support for black female victiims.
I personally don't give a ? about a ? or ? person lol but they are not being oppressed because of their sexuality and are actually protected. They are constantly changing laws for them so stop comparing it to the black struggle.
first of all is trans not ? . That's offensive. secondly black Trans women are killed at a ridiculous rate and very unprotected. now being that you don't give a ? , I'm sure you didn't look at the statistics so I'm not going to bother to link you to something you don't give a ? about.
You - A BLACK STRAIGHT MAN - not giving a ? about another BLACK person's issue is the entire point of this article so... Every single response to this issue In this thread has been the same. Homophobic and bigoted. Nobody else's issues matter to you but those that immediately effect you. Sound familiar?? Point proven. Thank you.
also, check between your legs. Do you have a ? or a ? ? Oh really? There's a ? there? That means you are not to speak on black women's issues telling a black woman what they don't go through. ? out of here.
If you look between a "trans woman's" legs there's a ? there too. Pause. Yet you're fighting for them to have an opinion on women's issues. Smh. Bass ackwards ass.
Not necessarily. And how am I fighting for them to have an opinion on black women's issues? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »
You tip toeing fam. Like you take eight paragraphs to say what can be said in three sentences.
And you spending all this back and forth energy on this ? for what reason?
I'm not really sure what you mean. They make multiple points. I address each of their points. If those points have merit I acknowledge it. If those posts are ? , I say that too. You say I can say the same thing in three sentences. That's not really true. What I can do is dismiss their points, call them ? , and tell them to shut the ? up like you ? do. I'm not going to do that because it's pointless and honestly every bit as bitchmade as you accuse them of being.
Also, it was a slow day at work and 3 paragraphs wastes more time than 3 sentences.
Bro. You are writing as if she isn't using strawman arguments in the first place. You make a point and she either gaslight you or moves the goal posts. I don't even address her.
You aren't wrong. I admit that.
He's right?
How so? lol
Moving the goal post?
Yall ? man ....smh
First, you tell us that we need to listen to what you guys are saying.
We say "Ok, educate us. Give us the knowledge you think we should have."
Then you say "I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you. If you want to know you have to do your own research, and if you don't do that then you must not care."
That would be moving the goalpost.
This convo sounds familiar
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Why are we bringing up women’s rights/issues when y’all and we have issues being black first??
And if it’s a byproduct of white supremacy why not attack that?? And the other symptoms would go away right???? You get rid of a cold and the mucus and congestion symptoms leave.....in fact we are treating the symptoms instead of the virus....we wait until we have a runny nose and treat the runny nose instead of the infection...
That’s the exact same thing as lbgqt rights/lives being brought up during black lives matters issues
We have issues being black and people want to bring up points of contention about being a women , ? , poor, nationality, religion....
That too me says black women are ok with white supremacy....they just want their treatment to change a little bit....? people are ok with white supremacy....they just want their social acceptance a little bit....
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »
You tip toeing fam. Like you take eight paragraphs to say what can be said in three sentences.
And you spending all this back and forth energy on this ? for what reason?
I'm not really sure what you mean. They make multiple points. I address each of their points. If those points have merit I acknowledge it. If those posts are ? , I say that too. You say I can say the same thing in three sentences. That's not really true. What I can do is dismiss their points, call them ? , and tell them to shut the ? up like you ? do. I'm not going to do that because it's pointless and honestly every bit as bitchmade as you accuse them of being.
Also, it was a slow day at work and 3 paragraphs wastes more time than 3 sentences.
Bro. You are writing as if she isn't using strawman arguments in the first place. You make a point and she either gaslight you or moves the goal posts. I don't even address her.
You aren't wrong. I admit that.
He's right?
How so? lol
Moving the goal post?
Yall ? man ....smh
First, you tell us that we need to listen to what you guys are saying.
We say "Ok, educate us. Give us the knowledge you think we should have."
Then you say "I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you. If you want to know you have to do your own research, and if you don't do that then you must not care."
That would be moving the goalpost.
This convo sounds familiar
Ok, but I think it's stupid to attack her under those consequences if she's being sincere.
It's basically (even though this seems like a case of a white person trying to cape)
Black People: Hey, we have grievances we want addressed.
Gaga: I'm listening.
Black People: ? you. Figure it out yourself.
Does that make sense to you? Well, maybe it does because passive aggressive ? like that is a favorite tactic of your gender. -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »
You tip toeing fam. Like you take eight paragraphs to say what can be said in three sentences.
And you spending all this back and forth energy on this ? for what reason?
I'm not really sure what you mean. They make multiple points. I address each of their points. If those points have merit I acknowledge it. If those posts are ? , I say that too. You say I can say the same thing in three sentences. That's not really true. What I can do is dismiss their points, call them ? , and tell them to shut the ? up like you ? do. I'm not going to do that because it's pointless and honestly every bit as bitchmade as you accuse them of being.
Also, it was a slow day at work and 3 paragraphs wastes more time than 3 sentences.
Bro. You are writing as if she isn't using strawman arguments in the first place. You make a point and she either gaslight you or moves the goal posts. I don't even address her.
You aren't wrong. I admit that.
He's right?
How so? lol
Moving the goal post?
Yall ? man ....smh
First, you tell us that we need to listen to what you guys are saying.
We say "Ok, educate us. Give us the knowledge you think we should have."
Then you say "I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you. If you want to know you have to do your own research, and if you don't do that then you must not care."
That would be moving the goalpost.
Meaning im not going to be giving out history lessons when u have google
Otherwise ive explained in great detail why i believe the article has some merit and why other blk women may agree
And how i believe that can be remedied
You don't have to give history lessons, but if you can throw names of women in our face when you want to make a point that we don't honor them enough, why can't you throw those names out under less confrontational circumstances. No one is telling you to be our sole source for information, but its silly to keep telling us that we should learn and then backpedal when someone says "teach us."
Ok
Keeping it real. and I'm not being condescending...at least not trying to be
Most my posts are reactionary. I'm just trying to educate or rather give my opinion as to why i and some blk women often feel invisible and ignored or/and mistreated by blk men and society in general
I do post links and articles to support my claims /arguments when i have them/have time
While I learned about MLK, X, Garvey mainly in k-12, college, church, etc....great women who made positive contributions during that era are routinely overlooked and not talked about
That was my initial point. That capable women were rarely given an opportunity to lead and often times regulated into domestic duties like cooking when they wanted to do more
I only bought up the Civil Rights Movement after u did and some other poster claimed women were not involved in the movement in the same capacity as men. And I'm not just name dropping for the sake of it. I brought up Dorothy Height as an example
You want to learn more about what she experienced start here:
www.google.com/amp/www.theroot.com/dorothy-height-and-the-sexism-of-the-civil-rights-movem-1790879502/amp
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@The Lonious Monk
Is me stating there was sexism in the civil rights movement, is that me man bashing? Or me stating my opinion which is based on the words of women that lived threw it
That said, I dont feel as though I've attacked anyone without just cause...and I'm not some angry bird squawking ? aint ?
Yes some women do man bash. Some self identify as feminist. And I personally know a few.... I ve admitted to that numerous of times
Dont believe they make up the overwhelming majoirty based on my experience. You can accuse me of being disingenuous but my stance remains the same
All i will admit to is that i can do a better job of taking these women to task. Blk ppl, blk men in particular, are constantly under attack from all fronts so i do understand why ? like the
the white analogy is divisive, hurtful and trash. I already admitted much
Still the plight of blk men shouldn't be used as something to silence blk women when we express frustration with misogyny and sexism within the community. And that is not a good excuse for anyone being misogynistic OR not putting forth enough a sustained effort to learn about and support the causes that impact the women in ur lives and blk women period
Yes misogyny and sexism are not just blk issues they are societal issues. But they hurt us more. Men are more likely to ? women than vice versa. Blk women are more likely to be killed by their husbands or boyfriends than anyother race of women
You admit your knowledge of feminism and womens issues is lacking/superficial. You want to know more look into the writings of Angela Davis or Patricia Hill Collins. Sites like forharriet.com are cool
At least take the effort to do the reading and research before u continue to make this a referendum on feminism and blk womanhood -
Black men getting blamed for the sexism of white men now ?
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VulcanRaven wrote: »@Madame_CJSkywalker I see you doing all this talking about men needing to do this and needing to do that. What are you suggestions for how men can prevent some other men from being misogynistic to women, stop abuse in relationships and stop men from sexually assaulting their spouse? How do you possibly expect a man to stop a guy from hurting a woman that wants to be with that guy? Explain? We don't have mind control over other men.
web.stanford.edu/group/maan/cgi-bin/?page_id=85
WHAT MEN CAN DO TO END VIOLENCE AGAINST WOMEN
Be aware.
-Words are very powerful, especially when spoken by people with power over others. We live in a society in which words are often used to put women down, where calling a girl or woman a “? ,” “freak,” “? ,” “baby,” is common. Such language sends a message that females are less than fully human. When we see women as inferior, it becomes easier to treat them with less respect, disregard their rights, and ignore their well-being.
-Don’t fund sexism. Refuse to purchase any magazine, rent any video, subscribe to any Web site, or buy any music that portrays girls or women in a sexually degrading or abusive manner. Protest sexism in the media.
-? and relationship abuse won’t be taken seriously until everyone knows how common it is. In the U.S. alone, more than one million women and girls are ? each year (? in America, 1992). Approximately one in three women will be in an abusive relationship in their lifetime (Report on the American Psychological Association Presidential Task Force on Violence and the Family, 1996).
-Understand the arguments against pornography depicting adult women. Think about how eroticizing violent sex contributes to violence against women. -
Black men getting blamed for the sexism of white men now ?
No but we are expected to be abuse victims who show no symptoms....? victims who grow up to be outgoing people who you would never be able to tell were ? , Tuskegee airmen who were given syphilis and untreated but show no signs of it....
Was sexism a issue prior to America?? Because that’s the state we are trying to get back to and fixing sexism within the black community will not bring about liberation...neither will the reconstruction of “toxic masculinity” -
Black men getting blamed for the sexism of white men now ?
What?
Where did u get that from???? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »The Lonious Monk wrote: »
You tip toeing fam. Like you take eight paragraphs to say what can be said in three sentences.
And you spending all this back and forth energy on this ? for what reason?
I'm not really sure what you mean. They make multiple points. I address each of their points. If those points have merit I acknowledge it. If those posts are ? , I say that too. You say I can say the same thing in three sentences. That's not really true. What I can do is dismiss their points, call them ? , and tell them to shut the ? up like you ? do. I'm not going to do that because it's pointless and honestly every bit as bitchmade as you accuse them of being.
Also, it was a slow day at work and 3 paragraphs wastes more time than 3 sentences.
Bro. You are writing as if she isn't using strawman arguments in the first place. You make a point and she either gaslight you or moves the goal posts. I don't even address her.
You aren't wrong. I admit that.
He's right?
How so? lol
Moving the goal post?
Yall ? man ....smh
First, you tell us that we need to listen to what you guys are saying.
We say "Ok, educate us. Give us the knowledge you think we should have."
Then you say "I'm not going to spoonfeed it to you. If you want to know you have to do your own research, and if you don't do that then you must not care."
That would be moving the goalpost.
This convo sounds familiar
Ok, but I think it's stupid to attack her under those consequences if she's being sincere.
It's basically (even though this seems like a case of a white person trying to cape)
Black People: Hey, we have grievances we want addressed.
Gaga: I'm listening.
Black People: ? you. Figure it out yourself.
Does that make sense to you? Well, maybe it does because passive aggressive ? like that is a favorite tactic of your gender.
Passive aggressive much?
I'm actual aggressive so....
and yes, she did get addressed in a manner that You might not agree with. But this is the thing, we have grievances, and you are told what they are. You know WHAT the problem is. The problem lies in"how do I fix that?" How are you supposed to tell the people that commit these wrongs To you, to fix themselves? Why do you think that that's reasonable? If we didn't make you like that how are we supposed to tell you how to change that about yourselves? -
Black men getting blamed for the sexism of white men now ?
No. You're getting blamed for your own. Unless you're puppets??? -
jetlifebih wrote: »Black men getting blamed for the sexism of white men now ?
No but we are expected to be abuse victims who show no symptoms....? victims who grow up to be outgoing people who you would never be able to tell were ? , Tuskegee airmen who were given syphilis and untreated but show no signs of it....
Was sexism a issue prior to America?? Because that’s the state we are trying to get back to and fixing sexism within the black community will not bring about liberation...neither will the reconstruction of “toxic masculinity”
We are all abused and the problem comes when no one addresses it. Black women are abused and we address it because we can be abused at the hands of black men. It happens. Having it acknowledged is something. That's a step. The abuse of black men is also a problem and it should be acknowledged as well. I don't know why we continue to that talk at each other and act like there are no valid points. Everybody needs to heal and it's ? up.
Is it so bad to acknowledge our pain? We're here now. We know the problems NOW. This ? needs to start somewhere. -
Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »
You talk about this historical sexism (ex. during the civil rights movement) like if Black men were the ones saying women were less than a man, and shouldn't work, vote and all that ? . No, that ? was not us - we were busy being oppressed along with yall. That was the white man's philosophy.
I know I damn sure never had that belief. Neither did my father, or grandfather, or Uncles or any man in my family that I could think of - believe that a woman was less than a man and shouldn't work and all that ? . -
How so ? Where's the sexism that I'm personally exhibiting ? -
None right this moment. You know what i mean though.
Black men are being addressed (by another black man btw) about their own issues with black women. -
None right this moment. You know what i mean though.
Black men are being addressed (by another black man btw) about their own issues with black women.
The fact that he's a Black man doesn't mean ? . He could be attention ? , a ? , ? , etc... point is he could have an agenda.
But on the topic of sexism, is there some grand-scale (majority) of sexism by Black men that y'all are addressing or are y'all picking a few sexist Black MFs (that I still don't see the example of) and expecting all Black men to answer for it ?
Why don't y'all ask a MF if he has these sexist beliefs before y'all start accusing dudes of the ? ? Black men ain't monolithic, just like Black women aren't.
This attitude, of labeling 'Black men as sexist' ain't ? but divide and conquer. Of course, it's some sexist Black men (and women). Is it the majority ? I seriously doubt it. -
jetlifebih wrote: »Why are we bringing up women’s rights/issues when y’all and we have issues being black first??
And if it’s a byproduct of white supremacy why not attack that?? And the other symptoms would go away right???? You get rid of a cold and the mucus and congestion symptoms leave.....in fact we are treating the symptoms instead of the virus....we wait until we have a runny nose and treat the runny nose instead of the infection...
That’s the exact same thing as lbgqt rights/lives being brought up during black lives matters issues
We have issues being black and people want to bring up points of contention about being a women , ? , poor, nationality, religion....
That too me says black women are ok with white supremacy....they just want their treatment to change a little bit....? people are ok with white supremacy....they just want their social acceptance a little bit....
Misogyny, sexism arent byproducts of white supremacy
If all white ppl were to just up and vanish tomorrow, is the use of the word '? ' and 'hoe' to describe women going to stop? Will the sexual exploitation and objectification of women cease? What about domestic violence? Are ppl going to stop expecting everyone to subscribe to gender roles? No
Misogyny, sexism in our homes and outside our communities, however, do work hand and hand white supremacy to subjugate both blk men and women
So, figuratively speaking, how can we as a ppl do better when one of our arms is pinned down?
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Madame_CJSkywalker wrote: »jetlifebih wrote: »Why are we bringing up women’s rights/issues when y’all and we have issues being black first??
And if it’s a byproduct of white supremacy why not attack that?? And the other symptoms would go away right???? You get rid of a cold and the mucus and congestion symptoms leave.....in fact we are treating the symptoms instead of the virus....we wait until we have a runny nose and treat the runny nose instead of the infection...
That’s the exact same thing as lbgqt rights/lives being brought up during black lives matters issues
We have issues being black and people want to bring up points of contention about being a women , ? , poor, nationality, religion....
That too me says black women are ok with white supremacy....they just want their treatment to change a little bit....? people are ok with white supremacy....they just want their social acceptance a little bit....
Misogyny, sexism arent byproducts of white supremacy
If all white ppl were to just up and vanish tomorrow, is the use of the word '? ' and 'hoe' to describe women going to stop? Will the sexual exploitation and objectification of women cease? What about domestic violence? Are ppl going to stop expecting everyone to subscribe to gender roles? No
Misogyny, sexism in our homes and outside our communities, however, do work hand and hand white supremacy to subjugate both blk men and women
So, figuratively speaking, how can we as a ppl do better when one of our arms is pinned down?
Some women are actually ? and hoes. If that's your bar to measure misogyny or sexism, then it's flawed and useless.
As far as doing better, it would start if you would acknowledge that it's probably a small minority of Black men who truly are misogynists or sexists. In other words, we are already doing better but so-called feminists seem to focus on the worst ... and seem to use that label for ALL men.
Like literally, WTF you want the rest of us to do about a dude who calls all women ? and hoes, or beats up women for no reason ?
And as far as women being objectified - if you can't admit it goes both ways (them objectifying themselves as well), then the discussion is pointless. -
jetlifebih wrote: »Black men getting blamed for the sexism of white men now ?
No but we are expected to be abuse victims who show no symptoms....? victims who grow up to be outgoing people who you would never be able to tell were ? , Tuskegee airmen who were given syphilis and untreated but show no signs of it....
Was sexism a issue prior to America?? Because that’s the state we are trying to get back to and fixing sexism within the black community will not bring about liberation...neither will the reconstruction of “toxic masculinity”
We are all abused and the problem comes when no one addresses it. Black women are abused and we address it because we can be abused at the hands of black men. It happens. Having it acknowledged is something. That's a step. The abuse of black men is also a problem and it should be acknowledged as well. I don't know why we continue to that talk at each other and act like there are no valid points. Everybody needs to heal and it's ? up.
Is it so bad to acknowledge our pain? We're here now. We know the problems NOW. This ? needs to start somewhere.
And who doesn't acknowledge it ? Don't the majority of Black men react to some ? up ? .... as it being ? up ? ? -
its alot of feminists and strong independent black women that will give me the ass knowing im married just cause i got a few dollars.
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2stepz_ahead wrote: »its alot of feminists and strong independent black women that will give me the ass knowing im married just cause i got a few dollars.
They "objectifying" you bruh.
