The Mask You Live In (a study of masculinity) (trailer)
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@Ubuntu1 you are out of your ? mind.
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What I think needs to be kept in mind here and everywhere else that these types of discussions take place, is that human nature does not, and can it, change at the same pace as society.
You can draw up the perfect blueprint, but you can't control how people will instinctively act and react. You will never artificially "condition" out human nature, and therefore you must build around it, not try to force it to fit your mold. We need to be realistic, not idealistic, lest we ignore root problems and begin treating symptoms rather than underlying illness.
This may be true but we aren't talking about human nature but ABNORMAL behaviors caused by unnecessary pressures and unrealistic ideals of masculinity.I think the base level you have to break this all down to is the type of economic system, and thus de facto survival system, that America operates on.
A lot of these aggressive attitudes are handed down by men who are being forced to look out for themselves and families first. They impart the ideals they feel the younger men will need to carry with them to make it in a "me first" survival system. Even if they'd like to be "let's all get along and work together," you still have to be looking over your shoulder and making sure you don't get taken advantage of or shortchanged. The system is set up to benefit cutthroat and aggressive behavior, even when these actions aren't necessarily physical or violent.
If the majority of people become passive, it just makes it that much easier for the aggressive ones to come and take what they want, especially those that have positioned themselves to power (the filmmaker's husband is multimillionaire businessman and high level politician, see how this all seems to tie together a bit.)
The conditioning they're suggesting would be fine in a different societal structure, but here, all I think they're really going to do is do what xxCivicxx said "produce better worker drones" and make people more easy to push around. Because honestly, these people aren't making this doc or pushing these ideas out of the goodness of their heart either.
Who does the end result benefit most??
Now none of this is to say that we don't have problems to address on the subject, I'm simply speaking on this trailer and its message/motives for now.
Conspiracy theories aside this is a good post.
We have a system that prides itself on competition and aggressive behavior...in certain areas but not in others and at certain times but not others, that can lead to a lot of...confusion.
Certain kids are taught to be aggressive and take what they want but they are also taught the legal means of doing so. You could argue they also have access to resources that help them achieve goal as well.
Personally, I can't take anything backed by people in power at face value. You don't get to the top by looking out for the middle and bottom. It all goes back to the way our power structure is set up.
Well...that's also true but the positive thing about folks trying to hold you down is that they often hold themselves down too. That said, many won't try it and these people have nothing really to gain. They already have the lifestyle they want.
You don't make it far in political office without bending and checking your own pride at the door b
The detrimental behavior, namely aggression, they want to avoid isn't abnormal at all, its the normal and natural response to abnormal outside factors. That is why I said we need to factor in human nature from the very beginning, because that isn't going to change no matter how bad we think the way it gets expressed might be.
Again it's not aggression that is the problem, it's excessive aggression that is the problem. -
Why the ? should the school system be geared against competition when we live in capitalism??? That would only be setting children up to fail
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all i am actually saying is to leave the ? boys alone all that over the top defensive ? is just natural chest pounding all males do that ? until they grow out of it, just leave the boys alone and support them with proper discipline that's it we don't need to experiment with boyhood.
Pounding "BE A MAN! DON'T CRY!" into a young male's skull is what's disruptive to natural maturity.
Let that lil ? grow up to a human being, instead of what certain societies believe a "man" to be.? are the most successful people steve jobs, bill gates, trump, buffet these people are ? .
I'll give you Steve Jobs. But Bill Gates and Warren Buffet? Now you're just making ? up.
bill gates was ruthless and warren buffet disowned his daughter. they sound like ? to me
we need men and their needs to be an idea of what manhood is little boys just crying for no good reason is ? men have always cried but we cried when we had a reason to.
A boy is going to be a man and his family will look to him for strength in trouble if we teach this boy to break and cry at rough times than he will not be fit to reassure his family in bad times. Something goes wrong daddy crying mommy crying. gtfoh
Nobody should be crying for no good reason. That's the problem here. Who said anything about crying for no reason?
This ? is deeper than crying.
These kids out here are damaged, very damaged. Many feel like nobody cares about them, that they can't express sadness or vulnerability without being perceived as being "weak" or "soft".
I been in contact with emotionally crippled kids, this ? is real and it's destroying boys by the thousands.
You'll be surprised at how much words of encouragement and simple listening can help a kid's life. There's some sensitive ass thugs out here frontin like they killers and tough guys when they just scared, confused boys.
Those are the laws of the jungle my ? . Not society. Some of ya'll don't seem to understand how soft society has actually made us. Weak and vulnerable animals get preyed upon and become dinner. What you're seeing is a natural response from men but since we live in a society where we have protection from being preyed upon you see that natural response as hyper-masculine and over the top. If anything, society has been removing the masculinity from men, not the other way around. People who look at this as some sort of long standing issue are just the people who have a problem with human nature because nature doesn't have much of a place in our society. -
yeah, i watched that video about 4 times. This really is a non issue. You get a bunch of high school kids in one room, you're going to hear all sorts of raging hormonal ? . Just because some kid doesn't have what it takes to be himself at the moment, doesn't mean that society is at fault and we need to make ? all inclusive. A hand full of dudes got together looked at their he-man doll, decided they could never reach this goal and proceeded to cry and menstruate on themselves. big deal... You know it's some powerful social engineering going on when you can get white people to bring up micheal page, adam lanza or james holmes in a discussion. smh.. If I'm broke down crying in my bed for 6 straight days, not going to work or eating, over a chick breaking up with me, or my favorite tv show is at the season finale; please tell me to grow some ? . If you care anything about me, tell me to be a man.... The phrase in and of itself in not a problem, so I don't think i'll watch a documentary about it being one. Men do come in all shapes and sizes, if a person can't get out of their little personal box, don't blame society. Blame that person. This current generation is by far the most laid back and accepting. FBI stats tell you crime is at a 20 year low, so where is this aggression? Oh some 15 year olds got into a fight on the basketball court. *gasp*, oh the horror.
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Meta_Conscious wrote: »lmao.
first of all, what a bunch of ? .
get this dumb ? the ? out of here.
honor, respect, brotherhood, and leadership are also elements of manhood... i notice they didn't discuss that in that ? video.
stop carrying your past of being bullied into adulthood. Man the ? up.
These are indeed the checks and balances most boys are not being taught/exposed to anymore, which leads to them not knowing how to properly interact, or handle certain situations. The results are negative feelings and confusion that boys are also not being taught to channel correctly.
We don't need to reinvent the wheel, but rather put the one that fell off back on. -
What I think needs to be kept in mind here and everywhere else that these types of discussions take place, is that human nature does not, and can it, change at the same pace as society.
You can draw up the perfect blueprint, but you can't control how people will instinctively act and react. You will never artificially "condition" out human nature, and therefore you must build around it, not try to force it to fit your mold. We need to be realistic, not idealistic, lest we ignore root problems and begin treating symptoms rather than underlying illness.
This may be true but we aren't talking about human nature but ABNORMAL behaviors caused by unnecessary pressures and unrealistic ideals of masculinity.I think the base level you have to break this all down to is the type of economic system, and thus de facto survival system, that America operates on.
A lot of these aggressive attitudes are handed down by men who are being forced to look out for themselves and families first. They impart the ideals they feel the younger men will need to carry with them to make it in a "me first" survival system. Even if they'd like to be "let's all get along and work together," you still have to be looking over your shoulder and making sure you don't get taken advantage of or shortchanged. The system is set up to benefit cutthroat and aggressive behavior, even when these actions aren't necessarily physical or violent.
If the majority of people become passive, it just makes it that much easier for the aggressive ones to come and take what they want, especially those that have positioned themselves to power (the filmmaker's husband is multimillionaire businessman and high level politician, see how this all seems to tie together a bit.)
The conditioning they're suggesting would be fine in a different societal structure, but here, all I think they're really going to do is do what xxCivicxx said "produce better worker drones" and make people more easy to push around. Because honestly, these people aren't making this doc or pushing these ideas out of the goodness of their heart either.
Who does the end result benefit most??
Now none of this is to say that we don't have problems to address on the subject, I'm simply speaking on this trailer and its message/motives for now.
Conspiracy theories aside this is a good post.
We have a system that prides itself on competition and aggressive behavior...in certain areas but not in others and at certain times but not others, that can lead to a lot of...confusion.
Certain kids are taught to be aggressive and take what they want but they are also taught the legal means of doing so. You could argue they also have access to resources that help them achieve goal as well.
Personally, I can't take anything backed by people in power at face value. You don't get to the top by looking out for the middle and bottom. It all goes back to the way our power structure is set up.
Well...that's also true but the positive thing about folks trying to hold you down is that they often hold themselves down too. That said, many won't try it and these people have nothing really to gain. They already have the lifestyle they want.
You don't make it far in political office without bending and checking your own pride at the door b
The detrimental behavior, namely aggression, they want to avoid isn't abnormal at all, its the normal and natural response to abnormal outside factors. That is why I said we need to factor in human nature from the very beginning, because that isn't going to change no matter how bad we think the way it gets expressed might be.
Again it's not aggression that is the problem, it's excessive aggression that is the problem.
It's not a problem.
Because it's not common. Not even close. Ultra aggressive ppl are rare, very rare. I can count on one hand ultra aggressive ppl I met and I lived in 3 different states. -
Meta_Conscious wrote: »lmao.
first of all, what a bunch of ? .
get this dumb ? the ? out of here.
honor, respect, brotherhood, and leadership are also elements of manhood... i notice they didn't discuss that in that ? video.
stop carrying your past of being bullied into adulthood. Man the ? up.
These are indeed the checks and balances most boys are not being taught/exposed to, which leads to them not knowing how to handle certain situations. It creates negative feelings and confusion that boys are also not being taught how to channel correctly.
We don't need to reinvent the wheel, but rather put the one that fell off back on.
they think being the toughest will give them everything else -
Meta_Conscious wrote: »lmao.
first of all, what a bunch of ? .
get this dumb ? the ? out of here.
honor, respect, brotherhood, and leadership are also elements of manhood... i notice they didn't discuss that in that ? video.
stop carrying your past of being bullied into adulthood. Man the ? up.
I don't remember them saying it wasn't either.
As far as folks carrying their past into adulthood...that's part of the problem. Certainly somebody who studies the prison system realizes the damage upbringing has on an adult.
I don't understand how you can expect a child to understand and deal with the same issues that ? men well into their adulthood. -
wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out. -
Shizlansky wrote: »What I think needs to be kept in mind here and everywhere else that these types of discussions take place, is that human nature does not, and can it, change at the same pace as society.
You can draw up the perfect blueprint, but you can't control how people will instinctively act and react. You will never artificially "condition" out human nature, and therefore you must build around it, not try to force it to fit your mold. We need to be realistic, not idealistic, lest we ignore root problems and begin treating symptoms rather than underlying illness.
This may be true but we aren't talking about human nature but ABNORMAL behaviors caused by unnecessary pressures and unrealistic ideals of masculinity.I think the base level you have to break this all down to is the type of economic system, and thus de facto survival system, that America operates on.
A lot of these aggressive attitudes are handed down by men who are being forced to look out for themselves and families first. They impart the ideals they feel the younger men will need to carry with them to make it in a "me first" survival system. Even if they'd like to be "let's all get along and work together," you still have to be looking over your shoulder and making sure you don't get taken advantage of or shortchanged. The system is set up to benefit cutthroat and aggressive behavior, even when these actions aren't necessarily physical or violent.
If the majority of people become passive, it just makes it that much easier for the aggressive ones to come and take what they want, especially those that have positioned themselves to power (the filmmaker's husband is multimillionaire businessman and high level politician, see how this all seems to tie together a bit.)
The conditioning they're suggesting would be fine in a different societal structure, but here, all I think they're really going to do is do what xxCivicxx said "produce better worker drones" and make people more easy to push around. Because honestly, these people aren't making this doc or pushing these ideas out of the goodness of their heart either.
Who does the end result benefit most??
Now none of this is to say that we don't have problems to address on the subject, I'm simply speaking on this trailer and its message/motives for now.
Conspiracy theories aside this is a good post.
We have a system that prides itself on competition and aggressive behavior...in certain areas but not in others and at certain times but not others, that can lead to a lot of...confusion.
Certain kids are taught to be aggressive and take what they want but they are also taught the legal means of doing so. You could argue they also have access to resources that help them achieve goal as well.
Personally, I can't take anything backed by people in power at face value. You don't get to the top by looking out for the middle and bottom. It all goes back to the way our power structure is set up.
Well...that's also true but the positive thing about folks trying to hold you down is that they often hold themselves down too. That said, many won't try it and these people have nothing really to gain. They already have the lifestyle they want.
You don't make it far in political office without bending and checking your own pride at the door b
The detrimental behavior, namely aggression, they want to avoid isn't abnormal at all, its the normal and natural response to abnormal outside factors. That is why I said we need to factor in human nature from the very beginning, because that isn't going to change no matter how bad we think the way it gets expressed might be.
Again it's not aggression that is the problem, it's excessive aggression that is the problem.
It's not a problem.
Because it's not common. Not even close. Ultra aggressive ppl are rare, very rare. I can count on one hand ultra aggressive ppl I met and I lived in 3 different states.
Anecdotal evidence pales in comparison to let's say homicide rates among black boys. While true it's not as common as some would believe it's more common than it should be. -
What I think needs to be kept in mind here and everywhere else that these types of discussions take place, is that human nature does not, and can it, change at the same pace as society.
You can draw up the perfect blueprint, but you can't control how people will instinctively act and react. You will never artificially "condition" out human nature, and therefore you must build around it, not try to force it to fit your mold. We need to be realistic, not idealistic, lest we ignore root problems and begin treating symptoms rather than underlying illness.
This may be true but we aren't talking about human nature but ABNORMAL behaviors caused by unnecessary pressures and unrealistic ideals of masculinity.I think the base level you have to break this all down to is the type of economic system, and thus de facto survival system, that America operates on.
A lot of these aggressive attitudes are handed down by men who are being forced to look out for themselves and families first. They impart the ideals they feel the younger men will need to carry with them to make it in a "me first" survival system. Even if they'd like to be "let's all get along and work together," you still have to be looking over your shoulder and making sure you don't get taken advantage of or shortchanged. The system is set up to benefit cutthroat and aggressive behavior, even when these actions aren't necessarily physical or violent.
If the majority of people become passive, it just makes it that much easier for the aggressive ones to come and take what they want, especially those that have positioned themselves to power (the filmmaker's husband is multimillionaire businessman and high level politician, see how this all seems to tie together a bit.)
The conditioning they're suggesting would be fine in a different societal structure, but here, all I think they're really going to do is do what xxCivicxx said "produce better worker drones" and make people more easy to push around. Because honestly, these people aren't making this doc or pushing these ideas out of the goodness of their heart either.
Who does the end result benefit most??
Now none of this is to say that we don't have problems to address on the subject, I'm simply speaking on this trailer and its message/motives for now.
Conspiracy theories aside this is a good post.
We have a system that prides itself on competition and aggressive behavior...in certain areas but not in others and at certain times but not others, that can lead to a lot of...confusion.
Certain kids are taught to be aggressive and take what they want but they are also taught the legal means of doing so. You could argue they also have access to resources that help them achieve goal as well.
Personally, I can't take anything backed by people in power at face value. You don't get to the top by looking out for the middle and bottom. It all goes back to the way our power structure is set up.
Well...that's also true but the positive thing about folks trying to hold you down is that they often hold themselves down too. That said, many won't try it and these people have nothing really to gain. They already have the lifestyle they want.
You don't make it far in political office without bending and checking your own pride at the door b
The detrimental behavior, namely aggression, they want to avoid isn't abnormal at all, its the normal and natural response to abnormal outside factors. That is why I said we need to factor in human nature from the very beginning, because that isn't going to change no matter how bad we think the way it gets expressed might be.
Again it's not aggression that is the problem, it's excessive aggression that is the problem.
Fair enough, but even still, if we are seeing prevalent patterns of behavior then we can't classify the reaction as abnormal. Its still the natural response to stimuli that we simply aren't inherently built for. -
lol... u ? all over the place...
teach your kids values and skills conducive to success. This video and the rhetoric in this thread is corny.
Man Up! -
I think the real problem is the male feminist.
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Yall going against nature.
And nature always win in the end.
I have a 2 year son and 2 year old ? daughter.
My son is naturally more aggressive than her. And any playground in any country you see toddlers kids and teens males be more aggressive the females.
My son ain't been told be a man or man up because he's too young to understand but you know, what he acts like a boy suppose to. Rough housing and and what not.
Yall need to pull down Yall skirt.
Men are hunters. They are trying to turn us into something that's not naturally right. -
there is an agenda to make y'all scared to fight. scared to rebel.
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Meta_Conscious wrote: »wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out.
When multiple black kids are murdered or shot over the course of a single weekend in a city like Chicago you should take notice.
I mean you don't have instances like this from the 1910s or 20s or 30s or 40s...
Nor do you have it occurring in other nations as often as it happens here.
It's not natural. It's abnormal. -
Meta_Conscious wrote: »wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out.
When multiple black kids are murdered or shot over the course of a single weekend in a city like Chicago you should take notice.
I mean you don't have instances like this from the 1910s or 20s or 30s or 40s...
Nor do you have it occurring in other nations as often as it happens here.
It's not natural. It's abnormal.
A lot of them dudes is fatherless. They wasn't told/taught to be a man because they are still boys with no guidance.
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Meta_Conscious wrote: »there is an agenda to make y'all scared to fight. scared to rebel.
To be honest. It's that simple. -
Meta_Conscious wrote: »wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out.
When multiple black kids are murdered or shot over the course of a single weekend in a city like Chicago you should take notice.
I mean you don't have instances like this from the 1910s or 20s or 30s or 40s...
Nor do you have it occurring in other nations as often as it happens here.
It's not natural. It's abnormal.
i assure u those kids are not being taught to be men.
the crisis is poverty and broken homes. -
What do you mean? That somehow kids are supposed to manage their own hormones and feelings even though a lot of them show that they cannot?powerman 5000 wrote: »yeah, i watched that video about 4 times. This really is a non issue. You get a bunch of high school kids in one room, you're going to hear all sorts of raging hormonal ? . Just because some kid doesn't have what it takes to be himself at the moment, doesn't mean that society is at fault and we need to make ? all inclusive.
What?A hand full of dudes got together looked at their he-man doll, decided they could never reach this goal and proceeded to cry and menstruate on themselves. big deal... You know it's some powerful social engineering going on when you can get white people to bring up micheal page, adam lanza or james holmes in a discussion.
This is how people end up eating gunssmh.. If I'm broke down crying in my bed for 6 straight days, not going to work or eating, over a chick breaking up with me, or my favorite tv show is at the season finale; please tell me to grow some ? .
True. It may be a personal failure but we handle personal failures all the time from drug abuse to alcoholism...If you care anything about me, tell me to be a man.... The phrase in and of itself in not a problem, so I don't think i'll watch a documentary about it being one. Men do come in all shapes and sizes, if a person can't get out of their little personal box, don't blame society.Blame that person. This current generation is by far the most laid back and accepting. FBI stats tell you crime is at a 20 year low, so where is this aggression? Oh some 15 year olds got into a fight on the basketball court. *gasp*, oh the horror.
A fight on the basketball court is hardly what this is about. Don't trivialize it because kids are being killed for less than that. You see people killing each other over Facebook posts, man that ? is not normal. -
Meta_Conscious wrote: »wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out.
When multiple black kids are murdered or shot over the course of a single weekend in a city like Chicago you should take notice.
I mean you don't have instances like this from the 1910s or 20s or 30s or 40s...
Nor do you have it occurring in other nations as often as it happens here.
It's not natural. It's abnormal.
Because back then the traditional family was still intact and we had no drug wars ,no feminism , no acceptance of homosexuality, no atheism.
We had lots of problems like racism and misogyny. But in trying to fix these problems we created more problems without totally solving the problems we originally wanted to solve in the first place. -
Meta_Conscious wrote: »Meta_Conscious wrote: »wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out.
When multiple black kids are murdered or shot over the course of a single weekend in a city like Chicago you should take notice.
I mean you don't have instances like this from the 1910s or 20s or 30s or 40s...
Nor do you have it occurring in other nations as often as it happens here.
It's not natural. It's abnormal.
i assure u those kids are not being taught to be men.
the crisis is poverty and broken homes.
But it's not about whether they are being taught what YOUR concept of manhood is though, their concept of manhood says their behavior is rational.Shizlansky wrote: »Meta_Conscious wrote: »wait... what makes y'all think todays youth are facing a crisis?
y'all just old and scared of the youth like the old naggers before u. cut that out.
When multiple black kids are murdered or shot over the course of a single weekend in a city like Chicago you should take notice.
I mean you don't have instances like this from the 1910s or 20s or 30s or 40s...
Nor do you have it occurring in other nations as often as it happens here.
It's not natural. It's abnormal.
A lot of them dudes is fatherless. They wasn't told/taught to be a man because they are still boys with no guidance.
Perhaps but we should be talking about guidance and how best to do that, not saying there isn't a problem because there is. -
lol... this is so corny.
bottom line is that the gangs in Chicago are an isolated issue that has little to do with masculinity.
it has to do with poverty and broken homes.
these issue could be addressed. good luck fighting masculinity. -
Dude, you're part of this ? fake ass hyper masculine problem that don't exist.
