dumb People on the reason
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Fazeem Blackall wrote: »A good point but sadly enough it is a part of the problem. It is like sports fans who criticze players but have never played that sport a day in their lives, how can you respect someones opinion on how to do something if they have never done it in their lives. Rap or Sport fans that are not or have never been particpants should be silent spectators untill they developed the skill and fortitude to do it themselves and speak from a posiition of personal knowledge and relation on the subject areas...
True, but that's why we need to seperate fans from actual rappers. If youre a rapper in real life then of course you're gonna evaluate the music from a different perspective than a fan would. But we're talking about "fans", and fans don't need to know what all that technical stuff is to enjoy the music. Just like bball fans don't need to know triangle offense in order to enjoy the Lakers play. I'm not saying that a fan should be COMPLETELY ignant about the technical aspects of rapping, but to focus on just that one part of the music instead of how enjoyable the actual song is, I mean that's not hip-hop to me. Keep the technical ? on the drawing board and present the fan with the finished product. Some us are not rappers and will never be rappers, just give me good music. -
frozenheartwjlb wrote: »haha thats even worse than just callin t/s out on spelling errors. How can Pac be top 5?? Biggie, Nas, Jay, Em, Lupe, Mos, Talib, Eazy-E, Rakim, Krs-One, Slick Rick, Andre 3000, Big Boi, and Scarface have all been in the game. Hell it can be argued that even dudes like Obie Trice, Lloyd Banks, and T.I are better rappers than Pac. I mean come on dude was no better than Kanye West when it came to lyrics..
kanye west is a living legend and a great writer
kanye > em
eazy e? the ? nigag didnt even write his own song
man get the ? outta here u lame ass wigga lmao -
? has the nerve to bring up eazy e and diss kanye as an artist?
lmaoooo -
thesynthesis wrote: »wigga boy ? up before i smack the redness off ur cheeks
pac was 25 and that ? was selling millions....
jay was 29-30 before he even got famous, he had to wait for pac an big to die before he got his fame....them ? dying opened up lanes...both pac and big were YOUNGER than jay...
pac and big had age on therey side, they cud only get better, and the music speaks for itself, each album was good if not better than the last....
if they had lived both wud be where jay wasm actually i say they wud be even bigger, competition wud be farce, and music wud have been good....
them ? were hit makers, jay aint have half the swag or charisma of pac and big
E-Thug..... lol. But besides that they did die. You can talk hypothetically all you want, but they are dead and have been for a very long time. Jay dropped his first two albums 1996/1997. Correct me if I am wrong but them dieing did not cause his albums to drop. And there deaths have nothing to do with Reasonable Doubt being considered a universal classic. Their biggest impact like I said was they died. -
thesynthesis wrote: »? has the nerve to bring up eazy e and diss kanye as an artist?
lmaoooo
I am talking from a lyrical standpoint. Kanye is a MUSICAL genius, but he never has complex or complicated lyrics. He spits his ass off, but nothing complex. Just like Pac. Kanye is number 1 in my personal top 5. But you need to be able to have your personal top 5, and then be able to recognize a true top 5 dead or alive. -
Fazeem Blackall wrote: »A good point but sadly enough it is a part of the problem. It is like sports fans who criticze players but have never played that sport a day in their lives, how can you respect someones opinion on how to do something if they have never done it in their lives. Rap or Sport fans that are not or have never been particpants should be silent spectators untill they developed the skill and fortitude to do it themselves and speak from a posiition of personal knowledge and relation on the subject areas...
exactly that is why dudes that don't know about rhyme techniques which imo is the ? that makes the rapper good how can u give a proper analysis on how the rapper is better then rapper x if u don't even know what the fukk u talking about. -
From your stand point though, me comparing Kanye to Pac should not be a diss.
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frozenheartwjlb wrote: »I am talking from a lyrical standpoint. Kanye is a MUSICAL genius, but he never has complex or complicated lyrics. He spits his ass off, but nothing complex. Just like Pac. Kanye is number 1 in my personal top 5. But you need to be able to have your personal top 5, and then be able to recognize a true top 5 dead or alive.
lol kanye is a lyricist so was pac what a horrbile analysis like just fall back breh. -
frozenheartwjlb wrote: »E-Thug..... lol. But besides that they did die. You can talk hypothetically all you want, but they are dead and have been for a very long time. Jay dropped his first two albums 1996/1997. Correct me if I am wrong but them dieing did not cause his albums to drop. And there deaths have nothing to do with Reasonable Doubt being considered a universal classic. Their biggest impact like I said was they died.
jay never did huge number until them ? died....
pac sold 5 mil with AEOM while alive.....
he was younger than jay, and so was big
big and pac were head of the game, they knew how to make music....good music, both were far more diverse than jay
big nor pac never watered down theyre music to appeal to the mainstream, they did as they pleased unlike jay
big and pac werent SHY liek jay, they were huge personalities, when they talked ? listened
both of them ? loved making music, and wanted to be legends, they had drive....
they ruled over jay, thats just a fact, ? had to wait until they died to get put on...
RD might be considered a universal classic, but when it dropped only a handful people were listening to it, u can dickride the album now, but nobody gave a ? about it back in 96...
the fact is both big and pac were doing big numbers while alive shud tell u that they were ahead of all the competition including old ass jay z -
lol kanye is a lyricist so was pac what a horrbile analysis like just fall back breh.
Then so is Luda, Ross, Mims, 50, Game. Any dude that raps then is a lyricist, ? it right. "like bruh" you define a lyricist for me then, enlighten me, because from where I stand you are grouping every rapper and calling them a lyricist. While not being able to tell the difference. -
Shut up white boy. pac is atleast top 5..
Naw bruh, he's supposed to feel that way, Tupac would have felt the same way about him.
Working in the studio has taught me many things and one thing I learned is that rappers "rap" for certain people..
Some rappers rap for the E-geeks, lyric-junkies and multi-counters so they tend to use dictionary words, extended metaphors, and triple entrendes...they cater their music to their audience.
Some rappers rap for the streets, hustlers, players, and bangers and they rap in the language of the streets in ways that the streets can easily digest their message... they cater their music to their audience.
You cant expect a white kid from South Dakota to understand Tupac the same way a black kid from L.A. would understand Tupac.
..and you cant expect Tupac to cater his music for that white kid in Dakota, Tupac is rapping for that Black kid in L.A.
The only true way to gauge a rappers lyrical skills is in his ability to move the listener, and entertain, educate, and communicate with them through the music. -
frozenheartwjlb wrote: »I am talking from a lyrical standpoint. Kanye is a MUSICAL genius, but he never has complex or complicated lyrics. He spits his ass off, but nothing complex. Just like Pac. Kanye is number 1 in my personal top 5. But you need to be able to have your personal top 5, and then be able to recognize a true top 5 dead or alive.
who gives a ? about complex, jay raps aboout bling bling and ballin, his content has never been diverse...
marvian gaye wasnt a complex singer nor was bob marley, ? kept it 100, they knew how to reach the masses
u can write complex ? all u want and end up like canibus,
the masses dont listen to rap music to hear a ? rap complex, thats a niche market
the fact is kanye is a great song maker and great writer, he has his own style and way of putting words together, that is why he stands out and vinnie paz dont -
ludacris is a lyricist same with 50 same with game breh a lyricist to me is a guy who can put words together who can talk about anything content wise and has a good flow also that is what a lyricist is to me and as far as me not knowing what a lyricist is i rap so i know about rhyme schemes etc u average fan that probably does'nt know anything about rhyme schemes.frozenheartwjlb wrote: »Then so is Luda, Ross, Mims, 50, Game. Any dude that raps then is a lyricist, ? it right. "like bruh" you define a lyricist for me then, enlighten me, because from where I stand you are grouping every rapper and calling them a lyricist. While not being able to tell the difference. -
thats how it is with everything tho. If you do something, you're going to critique harder. You think classical composers don't mock these garbage ass pop producers? My music teacher used to laugh at that ? . Because he knows that the talent is more important than the popularity. Both is best.
That was my point tho. I understand the fact that actual musicians can criticize music better from a technical aspect, but you do not have to be a musician to enjoy music. If a rapper says something I can relate to in a clever way, as long as I got the message does it matter whether I know if its a multi or not?? -
thesynthesis wrote: »jay never did huge number until them ? died....
pac sold 5 mil with AEOM while alive.....
he was younger than jay, and so was big
big and pac were head of the game, they knew how to make music....good music, both were far more diverse than jay
big nor pac never watered down theyre music to appeal to the mainstream, they did as they pleased unlike jay
big and pac werent SHY liek jay, they were huge personalities, when they talked ? listened
both of them ? loved making music, and wanted to be legends, they had drive....
they ruled over jay, thats just a fact, ? had to wait until they died to get put on...
RD might be considered a universal classic, but when it dropped only a handful people were listening to it, u can dickride the album now, but nobody gave a ? about it back in 96...
the fact is both big and pac were doing big numbers while alive shud tell u that they were ahead of all the competition including old ass jay z
You do realize that AEOM was a double album... Meaning that 5 million discs were sold, so only 2.5 million albums.
You do realize that Pac had basically a slave deal with deathrow, while Jay released his album on his OWN label.
Both of Jay-Z first two albums sold 1.5 million apiece.
That hsi third album in 98' sold 5.5 million... And it was not a double disc
Jay did not wait for them to die he put himself on, and besides that him and BIG were friends. BIG was helping to put Jay on.
BIG had 2 albums, its kinda hard about being diverse.
Pac sadly died young... And its true he was unable to reach his full potential. Jay lived, maybe because he did not have that big mouth overpowering personality that you praise Pac for. Maybe had he stayed more in the lane Jigga was in he would still be alive. -
breh there are of plenty of lyricist that can make songs and be lyrical at the same time jay-z eminem biggie pac big pun ludacris ti ll cool j just to name a few these dudes have complex lyrics but at the same time can male hits.thesynthesis wrote: »who gives a ? about complex, jay raps aboout bling bling and ballin, his content has never been diverse...
marvian gaye wasnt a complex singer nor was bob marley, ? kept it 100, they knew how to reach the masses
u can write complex ? all u want and end up like canibus,
the masses dont listen to rap music to hear a ? rap complex, thats a niche market
the fact is kanye is a great song maker and great writer, he has his own style and way of putting words together, that is why he stands out and vinnie paz dont -
ludacris is a lyricist same with 50 same with game breh a lyricist to me is a guy who can put words together who can talk about anything content wise and has a good flow also that is what a lyricist is to me and as far as me not knowing what a lyricist is i rap so i know about rhyme schemes etc u average fan that probably does'nt know anything about rhyme schemes.
Man everyone can be a rapper now, I have not heard your ? so I can't hate on it. But being someone who raps does not make you a more intelligent fan. It just means you are inspired to give it a try based on the music you hear. So props on that, however the odds of you making it above a forum level are very low, I hope you know that. And just know that if you do make it big its "average fans" like me who make or break careers lol. And I would not call myself an average fan, I love hip-hop, I study it, and party to it, I drive to it, I shower to it. Its the only form of music besides R&B I enjoy. Rappers are what they are they are dudes with flow who can rap, lyricists are rare. Like dude above me who mentioned Canibus hit the nail on the head. They usually don't fair well, but there is a huge difference. -
LMAFO damn multiple faceless homos and haters chanting my name because of past hurt feelings. ? Dumb people are quite sensitive...
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frozenheartwjlb wrote: »You do realize that AEOM was a double album... Meaning that 5 million discs were sold, so only 2.5 million albums.
You do realize that Pac had basically a slave deal with deathrow, while Jay released his album on his OWN label.
Both of Jay-Z first two albums sold 1.5 million apiece.
That hsi third album in 98' sold 5.5 million... And it was not a double disc
Jay did not wait for them to die he put himself on, and besides that him and BIG were friends. BIG was helping to put Jay on.
BIG had 2 albums, its kinda hard about being diverse.
Pac sadly died young... And its true he was unable to reach his full potential. Jay lived, maybe because he did not have that big mouth overpowering personality that you praise Pac for. Maybe had he stayed more in the lane Jigga was in he would still be alive.
double album meaning u paid more for it,,,so wats ur point? it sold 5 mil, u were coppin two albums for the PRICE of two
same with Bigs albums, it went diamond, u were paying more for it,,,
BP 2 was a double album and sold 2 million....so Pac and BIG still sold more than him...wats ur point now ?
? jays first album did not sell 1.5 mil, u sounding like a lame now, he went gold, it later went on to sell,,, some years after..
u do realize pac is the biggest selling black rapper of all times? and jay even with 100 albums will never catch him
who cares wat deal pac had with DR....
even with BIG trying to help put Jay on that ? struggled to get GOLD ina time when ? were goin plat out the trunk of theyre car -
? has the nerve to say Pac only sold 2.5 mil albums with AEOM
when jay only sold 2 mil combined with his double lol
AEOM right now should be diamond status PLUS, while BP2 hasnt even reached 5 mill lmaoo
Pac and Bigs double lp's> jays wack ass bp 2
numbers dont lie -
frozenheartwjlb wrote: »Man everyone can be a rapper now, I have not heard your ? so I can't hate on it. But being someone who raps does not make you a more intelligent fan. It just means you are inspired to give it a try based on the music you hear. So props on that, however the odds of you making it above a forum level are very low, I hope you know that. And just know that if you do make it big its "average fans" like me who make or break careers lol. And I would not call myself an average fan, I love hip-hop, I study it, and party to it, I drive to it, I shower to it. Its the only form of music besides R&B I enjoy. Rappers are what they are they are dudes with flow who can rap, lyricists are rare. Like dude above me who mentioned Canibus hit the nail on the head. They usually don't fair well, but there is a huge difference.
that is your opinion does it make any sense no do i agree with it no and canibus is a weak argument for dudes that's like one guy who was a lyricist and wasn't succesful the ratio of lyricist who were succesful like eminem for example he is the highest selling rapper ever and he is also one of the greatest lyricist ever so that disproves your whole if u are a lyricist u can't be succesful theory. -
I swear to ? .
this ? ? Tommy is a Pac Stan. -
thesynthesis wrote: »double album meaning u paid more for it,,,so wats ur point? it sold 5 mil, u were coppin two albums for the PRICE of two
same with Bigs albums, it went diamond, u were paying more for it,,,
BP 2 was a double album and sold 2 million....so Pac and BIG still sold more than him...wats ur point now ?
? jays first album did not sell 1.5 mil, u sounding like a lame now, he went gold, it later went on to sell,,, some years after..
u do realize pac is the biggest selling black rapper of all times? and jay even with 100 albums will never catch him
who cares wat deal pac had with DR....
even with BIG trying to help put Jay on that ? struggled to get GOLD ina time when ? were goin plat out the trunk of theyre car
You were paying more. But still only 2.5 million people bought it.
Reasonable Doubt sold just more than 1.5 million as of today. Its still what it sold, you are cutting down what Jigga has done to just a year or two? I mean what he has done now dont count since Pac died? I missed that memo
Vol. 2 sold 5.3 million copies... And I could have swore that your certification is based on how many units shipped not sold. And to be honest BP2 was wack minus a few songs.
But on the same note pac's first album 2pacalypse Now is still sitting at gold..... And most of his record sales came after his death. His greatest hits album sold like 8 mill. -
and actually if you do the research you will see that AEOM was counted as 1 album 1 sale because it was one of the first double CDs in music and the 1st in rap, it was later double CD releases that record labels became slick and negotiated to be counted as 2 for each single sale. SO the argument premise for anyone with the smallest inkling of research under their belt is is a moot one as it is not factually supported...thesynthesis wrote: »? has the nerve to say Pac only sold 2.5 mil albums with AEOM
when jay only sold 2 mil combined with his double lol
AEOM right now should be diamond status PLUS, while BP2 hasnt even reached 5 mill lmaoo
Pac and Bigs double lp's> jays wack ass bp 2
numbers dont lie -
frozenheartwjlb wrote: »You were paying more. But still only 2.5 million people bought it.
Reasonable Doubt sold just more than 1.5 million as of today. Its still what it sold, you are cutting down what Jigga has done to just a year or two? I mean what he has done now dont count since Pac died? I missed that memo
Vol. 2 sold 5.3 million copies... And I could have swore that your certification is based on how many units shipped not sold. And to be honest BP2 was wack minus a few songs.
But on the same note pac's first album 2pacalypse Now is still sitting at gold..... And most of his record sales came after his death. His greatest hits album sold like 8 mill.
RD was certified GOLD, stop talking as if that album was a major success, even Jay wud not say that.
I don't care what it has sold to date, if we are going to go along those lines then Pac has eclipsed that ? twice over.
BP2 sold 2 million copies combined, it was nowhere successful as AEOM or LAD even to DATE. they stopped reclassifying AEOM and alot of Pac albums, he has many sales accounted for, he's right up there with EM, some may say he might have sold more, if those years of un counted sales were to be added up.
Both AEOM AND LAD are superior albums to Jays BP2 thus is why they sold more and are still selling to this day.....
You can argue most of his sales came after his death, and all that extra ? , he was still the biggest solo rapper while alive and before his death.....Most of Bob Marleys sales came after his death, you still cant deny his greatness and his claim as the greatest reggae artist of all times....
Many rappers have died only BIG and Pac have achieved success because the music they made was that damn good
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