50 Greatest NBA Players: the Next Ten
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JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Pierce was the dude who was not scared of, and outdueled at times: Kobe Lebron & Vince. Not sure if he ? on Wade in his prime, I think Wade used to get the better of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if yall found that he did.
He to me has a stronger case than Jason Kidd.
Kidd, Payton, Nash and Parker kind of cancel each other out.
(oh yeah, ? , yall forgot about Tony P.)
you really think Nash and Parker are in the same class as Payton and Kidd as PG's?
I think, when you line up their accomplishments, Yes.
As far as who I think? Payton >Kidd>Nash>Parker.
But, Parker had the most championships, and one some of those was the dominant player.
Nash has 2 MVP's, and probably as good as or better career assist numbers.
Payton was the best total player, and led Sonics to the championship round
Kidd- led his team(s) to championship round as well. I think kidd is overrated slightly as well.
Parker and Nash weren't complete players ...they didn't impact the game nearly in the same way that Kidd and Gary did defensively ...they were/are turnstiles ...if your going to compare them I believe you should include all facets of the game and when you do that I don't know how you see Nash and Parker on a same tier as GP and Kidd
All facets of the game?
Nash is by FAR the best shooter out of the group.
Parker, the best penetrator
Parker/Payton the best scorers
Payton by far the best defender.
Kidd was a good defender, but was better at defending 2 Guards. Point guards
got to the rack on Kidd pretty easily. He relied on his size more than his feet.
Kidd and Parkers shooting was a liability for half their careers.
Late, Kidd could only shoot and could no longer create off the dribble.
I agree Nash and parker are not as good as the first two, but, you cant ignore championships, international play & MVP's. Parker out here winning chips with a Washed Duncan and Kawaii Leonard ? .
"shooting" = 1 facet of OFFENSE
i said that those two were deficient on the WHOLE OTHER SIDE of the ball ... not just one aspect of defense but the whole function itself ... i think its disingenuous to compare "shooting" by itself to "defense" on the whole thers so many factors to defense i.e. steals help d man d blks etc etc ... to me that would be similar to saying ... well yeah player X is irrelevant in every aspect of offense but he's just as good as this other more well rounded guy because he gets "blocks" ...that doesn't make sense to me
just like your saying Parker is a better "scorer" than kidd... ok ... but what does that really even mean if kidd is getting double the assist there for accounting for more offensive production than parker? what does it mean to be the better "scorer" yet not be accountable for as many total ppg as the guy who isn't as good a "scorer"
and i also think its disingenuous to marginalize kidds defense to "he could only guard 2's" i dont think thats an accurate representation of his defensive abilities ... he had some of the best anticipatory skills on defense for any wing defender during his prime .. and he was one of the best on ball steal generators of his prime as well .. -
JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Pierce was the dude who was not scared of, and outdueled at times: Kobe Lebron & Vince. Not sure if he ? on Wade in his prime, I think Wade used to get the better of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if yall found that he did.
He to me has a stronger case than Jason Kidd.
Kidd, Payton, Nash and Parker kind of cancel each other out.
(oh yeah, ? , yall forgot about Tony P.)
you really think Nash and Parker are in the same class as Payton and Kidd as PG's?
I think, when you line up their accomplishments, Yes.
As far as who I think? Payton >Kidd>Nash>Parker.
But, Parker had the most championships, and one some of those was the dominant player.
Nash has 2 MVP's, and probably as good as or better career assist numbers.
Payton was the best total player, and led Sonics to the championship round
Kidd- led his team(s) to championship round as well. I think kidd is overrated slightly as well.
Parker and Nash weren't complete players ...they didn't impact the game nearly in the same way that Kidd and Gary did defensively ...they were/are turnstiles ...if your going to compare them I believe you should include all facets of the game and when you do that I don't know how you see Nash and Parker on a same tier as GP and Kidd
All facets of the game?
Nash is by FAR the best shooter out of the group.
Parker, the best penetrator
Parker/Payton the best scorers
Payton by far the best defender.
Kidd was a good defender, but was better at defending 2 Guards. Point guards
got to the rack on Kidd pretty easily. He relied on his size more than his feet.
Kidd and Parkers shooting was a liability for half their careers.
Late, Kidd could only shoot and could no longer create off the dribble.
I agree Nash and parker are not as good as the first two, but, you cant ignore championships, international play & MVP's. Parker out here winning chips with a Washed Duncan and Kawaii Leonard ? .
"shooting" = 1 facet of OFFENSE
i said that those two were deficient on the WHOLE OTHER SIDE of the ball ... not just one aspect of defense but the whole function itself ... i think its disingenuous to compare "shooting" by itself to "defense" on the whole thers so many factors to defense i.e. steals help d man d blks etc etc ... to me that would be similar to saying ... well yeah player X is irrelevant in every aspect of offense but he's just as good as this other more well rounded guy because he gets "blocks" ...that doesn't make sense to me
just like your saying Parker is a better "scorer" than kidd... ok ... but what does that really even mean if kidd is getting double the assist there for accounting for more offensive production than parker? what does it mean to be the better "scorer" yet not be accountable for as many total ppg as the guy who isn't as good a "scorer"
and i also think its disingenuous to marginalize kidds defense to "he could only guard 2's" i dont think thats an accurate representation of his defensive abilities ... he had some of the best anticipatory skills on defense for any wing defender during his prime .. and he was one of the best on ball steal generators of his prime as well ..
Not seeing Kidd having 2wice the assist per game. I just looked up the stats.
So, taker their prime seasons, and I don't think Kidd produced more total ppg.
And- even if he had a slight edge, which im not conceding, Parkers best seasons were
producing deeper playoff runs, in a tougher conference, that ended in Finals births or championships.
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Duncan is washed?
Duncan is still one of the best interior defenders in the entire NBA ... and since when is 17/10/2 on something like 54% TS in the past 3 playoffs considered "washed" like that makes no sense to me ... is he his dominate 25 year old self .. no .. but yall ? gotta chill with just calling everyone washed because they don't put up the same numbers they did when they were 22 .. if any other player not named Tim Duncan put those numbers up ? would say they were puttin in work -
JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Duncan is washed?
Duncan is still one of the best interior defenders in the entire NBA ... and since when is 17/10/2 on something like 54% TS in the past 3 playoffs considered "washed" like that makes no sense to me ... is he his dominate 25 year old self .. no .. but yall ? gotta chill with just calling everyone washed because they don't put up the same numbers they did when they were 22 .. if any other player not named Tim Duncan put those numbers up ? would say they were puttin in work
Wade averaged 19/5/5 on 54.5% shooting this year. Is he washed? -
This ngga said PP and Garnet were equals before the Celts? Tha ? is wrong wit yall
Garnet in Min
-NBA MVP
-10 time all star
-3 1st team all nba (in an era with Duncan, dirk, cwebb in their prime at F)
-5 time 1st team defense
-'20,10, and 5'
-Revolutionized the game- remember he played SF for the first half of his career
PP before big 3
-5 time all star...crickets
Foh This is a disgrace -
This ngga said PP and Garnet were equals before the Celts? Tha ? is wrong wit yall
Garnet in Min
-NBA MVP
-10 time all star
-3 1st team all nba (in an era with Duncan, dirk, cwebb in their prime at F)
-5 time 1st team defense
-'20,10, and 5'
-Revolutionized the game- remember he played SF for the first half of his career
PP before big 3
-5 time all star...crickets
Foh This is a disgrace
LOL at Garnett revolutionizing the game.
They were not statistically equal, they were All Star forwards who could not lead
teams deep in playoffs. Carmelo status. -
Oh ok, yea you trollin now.
You forgettin Garnet avg'd 5, and as many as 6 apg at 6'11.
You're doing the whole 'cant win a ring you're a ? ' thing
KG minus a title would have been Barkley status, STILL ELITE.
Paul Pierce minus a ring woulda been reggie miller, pat ewing status. All-time great for his team, but not in that upper echelon
Ad Im 100% convinced outside the IC everyone knows this so yall have a good day -
JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Pierce was the dude who was not scared of, and outdueled at times: Kobe Lebron & Vince. Not sure if he ? on Wade in his prime, I think Wade used to get the better of him, but I wouldn't be surprised if yall found that he did.
He to me has a stronger case than Jason Kidd.
Kidd, Payton, Nash and Parker kind of cancel each other out.
(oh yeah, ? , yall forgot about Tony P.)
you really think Nash and Parker are in the same class as Payton and Kidd as PG's?
I think, when you line up their accomplishments, Yes.
As far as who I think? Payton >Kidd>Nash>Parker.
But, Parker had the most championships, and one some of those was the dominant player.
Nash has 2 MVP's, and probably as good as or better career assist numbers.
Payton was the best total player, and led Sonics to the championship round
Kidd- led his team(s) to championship round as well. I think kidd is overrated slightly as well.
Parker and Nash weren't complete players ...they didn't impact the game nearly in the same way that Kidd and Gary did defensively ...they were/are turnstiles ...if your going to compare them I believe you should include all facets of the game and when you do that I don't know how you see Nash and Parker on a same tier as GP and Kidd
All facets of the game?
Nash is by FAR the best shooter out of the group.
Parker, the best penetrator
Parker/Payton the best scorers
Payton by far the best defender.
Kidd was a good defender, but was better at defending 2 Guards. Point guards
got to the rack on Kidd pretty easily. He relied on his size more than his feet.
Kidd and Parkers shooting was a liability for half their careers.
Late, Kidd could only shoot and could no longer create off the dribble.
I agree Nash and parker are not as good as the first two, but, you cant ignore championships, international play & MVP's. Parker out here winning chips with a Washed Duncan and Kawaii Leonard ? .
"shooting" = 1 facet of OFFENSE
i said that those two were deficient on the WHOLE OTHER SIDE of the ball ... not just one aspect of defense but the whole function itself ... i think its disingenuous to compare "shooting" by itself to "defense" on the whole thers so many factors to defense i.e. steals help d man d blks etc etc ... to me that would be similar to saying ... well yeah player X is irrelevant in every aspect of offense but he's just as good as this other more well rounded guy because he gets "blocks" ...that doesn't make sense to me
just like your saying Parker is a better "scorer" than kidd... ok ... but what does that really even mean if kidd is getting double the assist there for accounting for more offensive production than parker? what does it mean to be the better "scorer" yet not be accountable for as many total ppg as the guy who isn't as good a "scorer"
and i also think its disingenuous to marginalize kidds defense to "he could only guard 2's" i dont think thats an accurate representation of his defensive abilities ... he had some of the best anticipatory skills on defense for any wing defender during his prime .. and he was one of the best on ball steal generators of his prime as well ..
Not seeing Kidd having 2wice the assist per game. I just looked up the stats.
So, taker their prime seasons, and I don't think Kidd produced more total ppg.
And- even if he had a slight edge, which im not conceding, Parkers best seasons were
producing deeper playoff runs, in a tougher conference, that ended in Finals births or championships.
you must be looking at the wrong stats ... look at their primes ..look at them when they were the same age
Kidd from 99
25 99 11asst
26 00 10asst
27 01 10ass
28 02 10asst
Parker from 08
25 08 6asst
26 09 7asst
27 10 6asst
28 11 6.5asst
Parker has only eclipsed the 6asst mark 4 times in his entire career ... last season he averaged 5.7 asst
i mean .. i dont know how else i can explain that .. and i wasn't even being literal .. i just was making a point ..but the numbers are right around what i was getting at
and again ... you cant compare team success without really examining the teams ... you cant credit TP with going deep as if he hasn't been playing with arguably a TOP 5-7 player of all time thats just not a fair comparison.. you got to put some context around that statement -
Oh ok, yea you trollin now.
You forgettin Garnet avg'd 5, and as many as 6 apg at 6'11.
You're doing the whole 'cant win a ring you're a ? ' thing
KG minus a title would have been Barkley status, STILL ELITE.
Paul Pierce minus a ring woulda been reggie miller, pat ewing status. All-time great for his team, but not in that upper echelon
Ad Im 100% convinced outside the IC everyone knows this so yall have a good day
Bruh, you are overrating Garnett, and underrating Pat Ewing and Reggie.
Pat Ewing wasn't elite? The only thing that stopped Reggie from being Elite was MJ. -
JDSTAYWITIT. wrote: »Duncan is washed?
Duncan is still one of the best interior defenders in the entire NBA ... and since when is 17/10/2 on something like 54% TS in the past 3 playoffs considered "washed" like that makes no sense to me ... is he his dominate 25 year old self .. no .. but yall ? gotta chill with just calling everyone washed because they don't put up the same numbers they did when they were 22 .. if any other player not named Tim Duncan put those numbers up ? would say they were puttin in work
Wade averaged 19/5/5 on 54.5% shooting this year. Is he washed?
No ... thats my point ... you ? call anything washed just because they aren't putting up their spectacular numbers anymore .. 19/5/5 on 55% shooting! 55% shooting for a guard ? ? do ya'll realize that Jordan never shot 55% or even 54% in any year ...........ever ... ? wtf ... if Lance Stephenson puts those numbers up this year yall would beg for that ? to be a allstar and MIP
i dont understand y'all with that ? ... his issues have been with his injuries and missing time .. not his actual production -
Kidd's a team killer. If not, post up some testimonials by teammates saying he's a good leader or teammate.
Even the Net's shipped him out ASAP. He didn't become a good teammate or leader until he was washed, when he needed to do that to keep cashing checks. And-- I'm still saying he better than anyone we talking about except Payton.
This is crazy ....how can you be a "team killer" while simultaneously being a 3 time finals appearance player... And a champion?
Like that literally makes no sense and it sounds irrational bruh ..if he was killing teams he damn sure wasnt doing a good job at it with all that winning
...he turned the nets from a joke to a championship contender but he was team killing? ......nah bruh ...if you want to say he was difficult to deal with or whatever hey that's your opinion ..but that's OD to call a guy other hat resume a team killer ..no way -
This ngga said PP and Garnet were equals before the Celts? Tha ? is wrong wit yall
Garnet in Min
-NBA MVP
-10 time all star
-3 1st team all nba (in an era with Duncan, dirk, cwebb in their prime at F)
-5 time 1st team defense
-'20,10, and 5'
-Revolutionized the game- remember he played SF for the first half of his career
PP before big 3
-5 time all star...crickets
Foh This is a disgrace
Nah they weren't equal but ur underrating da ? outta Pierce dawg. Just cuz he didn't make da all NBA 1st team doesnt mean he was neva elite, dats some trash ass logic. It was a disgrace for u to say pierce was joe Johnson pre big 3 u must not be hip to his 02 ECF run bruh -
Lmao u can't argue with fans bruh
That's his favorite player -
Axel your hearts too much in it
Pp is an unquestioned HOFer, but we arguing placement among 1st team nba guys, MVPs, defensive accolades, (forgot about that didnt u)...that ngga aint on that ecchelon
Hof guys who are primarily just scorers- Pierce, Nique, Drexler, Melo, Ray, Reggie...they on a lower tier -
Axel your hearts too much in it
Pp is an unquestioned HOFer, but we arguing placement among 1st team nba guys, MVPs, defensive accolades, (forgot about that didnt u)...that ngga aint on that ecchelon
Hof guys who are primarily just scorers- Pierce, Nique, Drexler, Melo, Ray, Reggie...they on a lower tier
? , are you serious?
Offensive rebounds by a guard, career: 2,615 (NBA Record)
Drexler came within one stat of achieving a quadruple-double on two occasions:
Portland Trail Blazers at Milwaukee Bucks, January 10, 1986: 26 points, 9 rebounds, 11 assists, 10 steals
Houston Rockets vs. Sacramento Kings, November 1, 1996: 25 points, 10 rebounds, 9 assists, 10 steals
This ? was the Trailblazers all time leader in scoring, assists, steals, and was up there in blocks and rebounds.
Was 1 of 3 players all time with 20k points 6k rebounds and 3k assists.
Drex was an elite scorer for the position, an elite rebounder, shot blocker and a good passer. -
Nash and Parker is probably two of the worst defenders I ever seen at the PG
And I really mean two of the worst. -
Axel your hearts too much in it
Pp is an unquestioned HOFer, but we arguing placement among 1st team nba guys, MVPs, defensive accolades, (forgot about that didnt u)...that ngga aint on that ecchelon
Hof guys who are primarily just scorers- Pierce, Nique, Drexler, Melo, Ray, Reggie...they on a lower tier
Thing is i agree wit most of wat ur sayin i just disagreed when u said pierce nd ray were "pretty good/never elite" being a tier below once in a generation type players ain't nuthin to sneeze at. Just felt like u slighted their accolades a lor too much, its cool tho guess we gonna agree to disagree -
Nd norm u lost me wit dat kidd team killer ? lls dude was gettin hella triple doubles, nd constantly one of da league leaders in steals he took terrible rosters to finals in back to back years
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Kevin Garnett was easily a top 5 player in the league at his peak
At no point was Paul Pierce ever a top 5 player -
Nique
Kobe
Lebron
Duncan
KG
Dirk
McAdoo
A.I.
Wade
I'm still pondering on that 10th spot. I wanna say Kidd but it's a toss with him and Payton. GP played better D. Kidd was a better passer. GP was a better shooter. It's tough cause they from the same area. If it wasn't for Wade I would add them both. I kinda felt a lil guilty bout putting Wade up there. I couldn't leave of a three time champion, finals MVP, scoring champ, and a guy who at one point you could argue was the best player in the league.
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I never at any point thought Garnett was better than Duncan, so he was never the top in his position to me.
Hell, there were years that there were a few players ahead of Garnett at his position.
Yall ? cant go at ? for being second to Jordan, and then say Garnett was the top at his spot, when he was always second to Duncan. -
I never at any point thought Garnett was better than Duncan, so he was never the top in his position to me.
Hell, there were years that there were a few players ahead of Garnett at his position.
Yall ? cant go at ? for being second to Jordan, and then say Garnett was the top at his spot, when he was always second to Duncan.
Disagree. The 04 season when he won MVP KG was the best PF in the game. The year he won the ship in Boston he was better than Duncan. I give Timmy the edge overall but there were some years that KG, Dirk and maybe C-Webb and Sheed were better.
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them same ? coulda been better than KG them years too
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Lol Ayo Big Norm, and Axel, bruhs, every guy we talkin about are HOF players. Stop thinkin anybody is slighting people.
But if we want to differentiate the diff levels, just like they did in the panel, you have to up the ante and raise the bar
Its like a club vip, if everybody can get in the bytch it aint no longer vip! Everybody cant be upper echelon,A1, etc, so stop giving these stats/stories that dont mean a gotdamn thing.
Theres a certain pecking order that just exists. You cant argue against all nba selecrions and mvps with 'yo remember that series vs kobe' or 'he could score from anywhere'. Enough -
them same ? coulda been better than KG them years too
They were in some years. Overall since Duncan came in the league he's been the best, but there were times when you could have named 4 other PF's the best in the league and you could have had a legit case. It's like that with PG's today.
