Yeshua aka Jesus The Christ Son of ? discussion thread...
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Does anyone have a verse where Jesus actually says he is the son of ? . I'm asking because I saw in the Qu'ran where Jesus tells ? that he never said such a thing and that he isn't sure how the people came to that conclusion. It got me thinking. I know that several people refer to him as the son of ? , but I don't remember him ever referring to himself as such. I know he calls ? , father, but he directs everyone to refer to ? as father.
Using the Qu'ran to understand what's taught in the Bible is an error. They are not compatible.
There is beaucoup proofs in the Bible that Jesus is the son of ? . The proof doesn't exist in just one verse. And neither is the understanding only given in one verse. The understanding though is made more clear upon extensively examining the entire counsel of ? , just like a lot of other things taught in the Bible. Anyways, ? himself called Jesus his son. "When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of ? descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"" (Matthew 3:16-17).supaman4321 wrote: »I've never got a logical explanation from a Christian on how Jesus can say his Father is greater than all but they are at the same time one in the same, it seems to me that he's saying they're on in purpose but maybe you can further enlightenment me on your thought process and how you came to your conclusion?
The Father is greater than Jesus in the aspect of authority. But The Father and the Son are both equally ? in the aspect of divinity. Same goes for the Holy Spirit. The Bible does teach the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are all in perfect harmony, or one, but it doesn't teach they are all one and the same identity. -
If he is just as "divine" as the Father how can he have less authority, and can you back this up with explicit statements from Jesus himself or are you following conjecture?
Anything that submits itself to the will of ? will be in harmony with it's creator that's what Muslims throughout the planet strive for but we never say that we are of the same essence or co-equal -
the REAL son of ?
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solid analysis wrote: »Using the Qu'ran to understand what's taught in the Bible is an error. They are not compatible.
There is beaucoup proofs in the Bible that Jesus is the son of ? . The proof doesn't exist in just one verse. And neither is the understanding only given in one verse. The understanding though is made more clear upon extensively examining the entire counsel of ? , just like a lot of other things taught in the Bible. Anyways, ? himself called Jesus his son. "When He had been baptized, Jesus came up immediately from the water; and behold, the heavens were opened to Him, and He saw the Spirit of ? descending like a dove and alighting upon Him. And suddenly a voice came from heaven, saying, "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"" (Matthew 3:16-17).
People on this site are a trip. Where did I say I was reading the Quran to understand the Bible? All I did was ask a simple question that I said was prompted from something I saw in the Quran. And you're trying to educate me, but still didn't answer my question. I didn't ask anyone to prove that Jesus was the son of ? . I asked for someone to provide me with a verse where Jesus said he was the son of ? . People always trying to educate and never pay attention. -
Jesus = a white ? named Serapis from Alexandria Egypt who was known as the Christos and his followers "Christians" who existed 200 years b4 Jews were called Christians in Antioch. (look him up/see his image -google image serapis)
Jesus and Serapis are two different beings completely. They were often confused and worshipped interchangeably though. However, it's in error to say that Jesus is Serapis or vice versa. -
supaman4321 wrote: »If he is just as "divine" as the Father how can he have less authority, and can you back this up with explicit statements from Jesus himself or are you following conjecture?
Anything that submits itself to the will of ? will be in harmony with it's creator that's what Muslims throughout the planet strive for but we never say that we are of the same essence or co-equal
am i following conjecture on which part? Jesus' diety? Or Jesus not having more authority than the Father? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »People on this site are a trip. Where did I say I was reading the Quran to understand the Bible? All I did was ask a simple question that I said was prompted from something I saw in the Quran. And you're trying to educate me, but still didn't answer my question. I didn't ask anyone to prove that Jesus was the son of ? . I asked for someone to provide me with a verse where Jesus said he was the son of ? . People always trying to educate and never pay attention.
There is no such verse. I tried to guess at why u asked for such a verse in the first place but i suppose i was off. -
solid analysis wrote: »There is no such verse. I tried to guess at why u asked for such a verse in the first place but i suppose i was off.
The only motivation was curiosity. I'm not using the Quran to understand the Bible, but I did want to know if the Quran actually contradicted the Bible in that area and from what I see it doesn't. The Quran says that Jesus never referred to himself as the Son of ? and the Bible seems to be in agreement with that. I was just asking the question in case I missed it and someone else was aware of an occurence. -
solid analysis wrote: »am i following conjecture on which part? Jesus' diety? Or Jesus not having more authority than the Father?
If i recall Jesus stated that he had no authority and that all that he says comes from ? ....sounds a lot like Islam
Also he never claimed to be divine in any way and even rebuked the rich man for calling him good and replyin that the ONLY thing that was good was ? , now what sense would that make if he as you say is of the same essence as the same Father who he says is the only thing that's good. We're not talking about authority he could've just as easily said he has no authority but is if not equally as good also good himself....once again....he sounds like a muslim to me. Nearly everytime Jesus is quoted as speaking he sounds like a true believer but you're gonna think i'm bias huh? -
The Lonious Monk wrote: »The only motivation was curiosity. I'm not using the Quran to understand the Bible, but I did want to know if the Quran actually contradicted the Bible in that area and from what I see it doesn't. The Quran says that Jesus never referred to himself as the Son of ? and the Bible seems to be in agreement with that. I was just asking the question in case I missed it and someone else was aware of an occurence.
I see.
Well as far as I kno the verse doesn't eixist. -
Actually the true understanding given in scripture is actually that when it comes to the roles in the Godhead, Jesus role is one of being in subjection to the Father. Mainly Jesus is called the Son, and ? called the Father because of their assumed roles. This is especially showed when Jesus walked the earth. Jesus in subjection to the Father, and The Holy Spirit in subjection to Jesus...and all are equally ? ...but that's another point. Anyways, it's possible for the Father and Son to be one even while the Father is still over the Son in the authority aspect. This doesn't mean Jesus is any less ? . Notice Jesus is even called 'the everlasting Father' in Isaiah 9:6. It can be a bit hard to grasp, but it may make more sense if not viewed from the angle of Islam. But if we understand that Jesus is the word of ? , and that the universe was created by the word of ? , then we understand how Jesus is right called the Father.supaman4321 wrote: »If i recall Jesus stated that he had no authority and that all that he says comes from ? ....sounds a lot like Islam
Also he never claimed to be divine in any way and even rebuked the rich man for calling him good and replyin that the ONLY thing that was good was ? , now what sense would that make if he as you say is of the same essence as the same Father who he says is the only thing that's good. We're not talking about authority he could've just as easily said he has no authority but is if not equally as good also good himself....once again....he sounds like a muslim to me. Nearly everytime Jesus is quoted as speaking he sounds like a true believer but you're gonna think i'm bias huh?
and I understand what you saying in the second paragraph but you mistaken that Jesus never claimed to be ? , or divine. I mean, why do you supposed the Jews sought out to ? Jesus in the first place? They clearly understood what Jesus claimed to be. Check out the text in John 5:18.
And everybody is biased. That doesn't always mean they lack the ability to look at things objectively though -
I'm not interested in what other people had to say about him what did he say about himself if i'm not mistaken the only people that made him out to be divine were the people that were trying to ? him so i don't think there testimony can be pretty fair, also Jesus wasn't the only prophet the jews tried/did ? , that is one of the reasons they incurred the wrath of ? .
he
and i'm not viewing it from the angle of Islam it just doesn't make any sense to me nearly EVERYTHING that Jesus says points to him being a humble servant of ? , he did not call himself divine as far as i can see. Let the man speak for himself don't speak for him. ? is in subjection to no one if that were the case then he wouldn't be ? , he is free from any need but Jesus clearly had needs otherwise he wouldn't have prayed so i can't rationalize how people still make him out to be ? .
Also the devil tempted Jesus but James 1:13 clearly states that ? CANNOTbe tempted....i dunno man...there's just so much stuff in the bible that disagrees with notion of Jesus being ? or a Son of ? , but to each his own. -
Ok then what do you do with the verse of Jesus claiming to be the I AM in John 8:58? The same I AM that spoke with Moses on mount sinai. In verse 9 we learn that this provoke the Jews listening to stone him. The Jews clearly understood better than us what he was saying. See there's no verse with him himself saying he is the Son, but there is verses of him saying he is the I AM and that he who sees him sees the Father....what do you do with those verses? If you accept this as proof that Jesus claimed to be divine then the Quran is not true in this area. It's only true in the area that he never claimed to be the Son. but that's a moot point. it is not proof that Jesus never claimed to be divine - He claims to be ? in other verses.
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The Lonious Monk wrote: »Does anyone have a verse where Jesus actually says he is the son of ? . I'm asking because I saw in the Qu'ran where Jesus tells ? that he never said such a thing and that he isn't sure how the people came to that conclusion. It got me thinking. I know that several people refer to him as the son of ? , but I don't remember him ever referring to himself as such. I know he calls ? , father, but he directs everyone to refer to ? as father.
Joh 9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of ? ?
Joh 9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh 9:37 And Jesus said unto him, Thou hast both seen him, and it is he that talketh with thee. (KJV)
* Note other ancient manuscripts read Joh 9:35 as the Son of Man. -
Joh 10:36 Say ye of him, whom the Father hath sanctified, and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said, I am the Son of ? ?
Joh 10:37 If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.
Joh 10:38 But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him. -
Thanks, that's pretty much what I was looking for. I remember the first one, but like you point out it was written as "Son of Man." The second one is dead on though. Props.
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Yea pretty much
Side note Smh@ Jesus being a buddhist which believes in no great creator for 14 years and getting a pass -
jesus was ? on earth correct? so how could he have a religion?
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TX_Made713 wrote: »jesus was ? on earth correct? so how could he have a religion?
Theres no true answer to that its one of those things that .... contradiction I believe fits it, he is somehow both Gods son, and ? himself at the same time it just depends what page you're reading at the time. -
What proves otherwise? How do you know he was a Buddhist?
(seriously, not being smart, just trying to find my ? out, searching if you will) -
What proves otherwise? How do you know he was a Buddhist?
(seriously, not being smart, just trying to find my ? out, searching if you will)
There are books written by monks from that time that confirm he studied and practiced buddhism with him. He was written to have studied it between the ages of 14-29 which conincidently is the time period in which no mention of his life is made in the bible, it only focuses on his birth, certain miricals, and his death. Never does it mention what Jesus was doing during this time in his life.
Back when I was 14 I attended church all the time and realized this and asked my preacher his exact words were "it doesnt matter what you think and if it did who cares, that time wasnt important anyway" Well shouldnt his whole life have been important? -
In the bible it did say "Jesus, your mother and brother are in the crowd here to see you" and he said "My mother and brothers are those who follow my fathers will" or something of that nature. So did his brother have an offspring and does he have living relatives? They should be hella rich with all the bible companies out there
If I were them I'd file a law suit for royalties -
Through being the son of the ? Mary no. I read somethin where Jesus had no decendents living, so his reletives must have kept their private parts private. Now I believe he married Mary Magdalene so IMO yes he does have decendents livin because they had children.
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ThaChozenWun wrote: »Through being the son of the ? Mary no. I read somethin where Jesus had no decendents living, so his reletives must have kept their private parts private. Now I believe he married Mary Magdalene so IMO yes he does have decendents livin because they had children.
How do you believe he married Mary M and had children? -
Why would Jesus care to get married or even have sex to bare children?
